Should Spanking Your Children Be Illegal?

[Don Penguinoini]

I respect my mum and dad more for hitting me and making me a good lad.

 

[sandandfoam]

stephen, just because it amazes you doesn't mean it's wrong.
If you wanted to understand my point you could



Have you raised children? I can say that it does work from experience.
What's that got to do with anything? The argument is one of principle.

Child research is done by people who are biased against it. Those studies have to always be taken with a grain of salt.
Great way to build an argument, disregard the evidence.



Kids are not as stupid as you think they are. They're not so stupid to think, "I just got hit; it means that I can hit others." Now, they are inexperienced, and lacking in wisdom which is why they need guidance. -There are those of us who think some "negative" reiforcement is just the proper road sign...
I said nothing about children being stupid. That has nothing to do with the argument.

Secondly, slapping/spanking is not violence: it is punishment. Abuse is violence
I don't see the difference

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi!

Well enough, then. Regardless of my own views on spanking, I do not like the government that far in my business. Not that I worry for myself, I have already raised my own children without the need for anything but an occaisonal light smack on the behind when they were in their "terrible two's"...three's...or so. Call it old fashioned, but sometimes its the only thing that shuts up a screaming 3 year old. They will push the limits as far as they can, trust me.

A wise man once said:

He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame. Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

And for balance:

And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

And for those who enjoy even more great wisdom:

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Cheers!

Is that from the bible?

 

[Panda]

Who has lived longer, and therefore is most likely wiser? Who pays for the food that the family eats, the shelter they live it, the clothing they wear?

Who pays for things is irrelevant to the question. Older does not mean wiser either.

The parents! The children haven't had the oppurtunity because they're still children. They need to learn, and experience. Thus, they have no right dictating to an adult what he should or shouldn't do.

I agree, but an adult has no right to hit a child. It is violence pure and simple no matter how much you try to change the wording you are still hitting your child.

Child research is done by people who are biased against it. Those studies have to always be taken with a grain of salt.

Physiological experiments don't work like that. Unlike in politics where people hold firm to their believes a lot scientists will happily change to what the evidence supports. If evidence supports that smacking children has a negative effect then there is good cause based on current evidence to claim this.

Kids are not as stupid as you think they are. They're not so stupid to think, "I just got hit; it means that I can hit others." Now, they are inexperienced, and lacking in wisdom which is why they need guidance. -There are those of us who think some "negative" reiforcement is just the proper road sign...

If it can be applied to a child it should be applicable to an adult. If I see an adult doing something wrong do I have the right to go up and smack them? Of course not.

Secondly, slapping/spanking is not violence: it is punishment. Abuse is violence

No it is violence. Would you like the definition of violence?

vi·o·lence (v

-l

ns)n.1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
2. The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
3. Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
5. Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
6. Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor.
Spanking fits 1,2 and 4.

 

[sandandfoam]

Panda, I can't frubal you again. But I want to. Spot on.

 

[Panda]

Also this isn't negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is removing an aversive stimulus. This is positive punishment, it adds an aversive stimulus.

 

[Sunstone]

Also this isn't negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is removing an aversive stimulus. This is positive punishment, it adds an aversive stimulus.

The terms are used differently in psychology. Negative reinforcement is using an aversive stimulus to reinforce a behavior. Positive reinforcement is using a reward to reinforce a behavior.

 

[Panda]

The terms are used differently in psychology.

What I gave is the psychological definition. Other meaning stem from misinformation and a lack of understanding.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

If my dad slapped saying you did this wrong. I'd say sorry and get it right, whats negative with that? My spanking/smacking has made me discplined, whn i watch these nanny programmes, i think, just smack the kid and tell him/her to shut up.

 

[Sunstone]

What I gave is the psychological definition. Other meaning stem from misinformation and a lack of understanding.

OK. I stand corrected. It's been a long time since I read Skinner.

 

[sandandfoam]

If my dad slapped saying you did this wrong. I'd say sorry and get it right, whats negative with that? My spanking/smacking has made me discplined, whn i watch these nanny programmes, i think, just smack the kid and tell him/her to shut up.

Yeah, It's different for humans.

 

[Fluffy]

Surely if it is acceptable to hit children it must therefore be acceptable to hit other adults?

 

[Panda]

OK. I stand corrected. It's been a long time since I read Skinner.

They are confusing I admit but I have to know them for psychology this year to explain the cognitive approach.

 

[England my lionheart]

No spanking does no good and i have proof,i spanked my eldest son when he was a kid he is 24 now so no chance i could do it now but the more i spanked him the worst his behaviour.I was always getting the cane at school and made me worse aswell.However ,my youngest son has never been spanked and up till now(he is 12)has been very well behaved .,so spare the rod and spoil the child

 

[gnomon]

I'm just happy that so far no one recommends throwing a parent who practices mild corporal punishment in jail.

 

[Panda]

I'm just happy that so far no one recommends throwing a parent who practices mild corporal punishment in jail.

It should carry the same charges as any other form of assault.

 

[gnomon]

It should carry the same charges as any other form of assault.

Well, that's brilliant.

Just tell the child that rather than receiving a swat on the bottom, we're taking your parents away. That won't traumatize them.

Let's hold a poll. For those of us who ever received some form of corporal punishment, not a beating or assault (let's not twist meanings), would you have like to see your parents jailed?

edit: Maybe D.A.R.E., since it already holds experience in having children turn in their parents, can incorporate themselves into this phenomenon.

 

[Panda]

Well, that's brilliant.

Just tell the child that rather than receiving a swat on the bottom, we're taking your parents away. That won't traumatize them.

Let's hold a poll. For those of us who ever received some form of corporal punishment, not a beating or assault (let's not twist meanings), would you have like to see your parents jailed?

edit: Maybe D.A.R.E., since it already holds experience in having children turn in their parents, can incorporate themselves into this phenomenon.

If you hit another person with the same force you hit your child then you most likely wouldn't be jailed. If you are hitting your child hard enough that it would get you jailed if it was not your child then what you are doing is clearly child abuse.

 

[gnomon]

If you hit another person with the same force you hit your child then you most likely wouldn't be jailed. If you are hitting your child hard enough that it would get you jailed if it was not your child then what you are doing is clearly child abuse.

Well I can agree with that.

I think there is some confusion here over what I consider mild corporal punishment. But framed as you present it here, I cannot disagree. That would constitute assault and abuse.

 

[Panda]

Well I can agree with that.

I think there is some confusion here over what I consider mild corporal punishment. But framed as you present it here, I cannot disagree. That would constitute assault and abuse.

I said mild corporal punishment should carry the same charge than it would if the person was not your child.