Should there be liberty for the intolerant?

[The Sum of Awe]

... or any gender expression?

Yes, of course.

Do you think there are many people walking around with swastika tattoos visible who don't also harass people? How big is the sliver of the population you're worried about?

The issue isn't about how many people fall under that category, the issue is assuming and then actively reacting to someone as threatening when there is no clear evidence they're threatening. It would be like an officer assuming a person of color is going to get violent because of their race. Of course somebody can decide not to wear a symbol while nobody can decide their skin color, but my point is that stereotypes are stereotypes. What would stop society from deciding that anyone who wears a trump hat is a racist and should be silenced or responded to with physical violence?

So you agree that, say, a trans or non-binary kid shouldn't get harassed for how they look or dress?

Of course they shouldn't/

Well, that's naïve.

Opinions can become violent, but until they do they're still just opinions. Someone has all the right to prevent someone from coming into their shop if that person is wearing a swastika, but prohibiting them wearing it in public is something I disagree with. Minorities need to be allowed a voice in order to be heard, and it doesn't matter if the minorities are seen as hateful by the majority.

 

[Revoltingest]

An apologist of Neo-Nazism?

If you must ask this of me, then I suggest
remedial reading comprehension training.

Someone asked....

Why call oneself a nazi if one doesn't feel aligned to the main things the nazis have done?

I can speculate about someone's vile thoughts
without this being sympathy for them.

 

[Secret Chief]

Get punched in the face for shouting a racial slur in someone's face?

How about getting punched in the face for shouting in a neo-nazis face?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

How about getting punched in the face for shouting in a neo-nazis face?

If that's not socially acceptable, why would the former be?

 

[JustGeorge]

How about getting punched in the face for shouting in a neo-nazis face?

Well...

I know from past experiences, I can take a hell of a punch(or multiple punches) and still stand smiling. What the heck, this might be fun...

I'll take the risk! Sounds like a great way to spend the afternoon.

 

[Secret Chief]

If that's not socially acceptable, why would the former be?

Because neither racism nor fascism should be tolerated.

 

[Secret Chief]

Well...

I know from past experiences, I can take a hell of a punch(or multiple punches) and still stand smiling. What the heck, this might be fun...

I'll take the risk! Sounds like a great way to spend the afternoon.

It's very bracing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How about getting punched in the face for shouting in a neo-nazis face?

@JustGeorge was pointing out how law enforcement might handle a situation. Even neo-nazis have rights. In either case the puncher could easily be arrested, and probably should be. What is determined in a court of law if there are mitigating circumstances that lessen the degree of punishment. In both cases the person shouting could be found to be partially at fault which may all but eliminate punishment.

Provocation (legal) - Wikipedia.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because neither racism nor fascism should be tolerated.

There should be steps taken to educate people. It is not possible to arrest people merely for their beliefs. In a free society one has to tolerate some "wrongs".

 

[Secret Chief]

There should be steps taken to educate people. It is not possible to arrest people merely for their beliefs. In a free society one has to tolerate some "wrongs".

I agree. But I'm not mad on tolerating attacking the police, "paki scum" being sprayed on a mosque, vandalising police vehicles, throwing bricks at shoppers... from a previous "peaceful march" in my city from a fascist organisation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree. But I'm not mad on tolerating attacking the police, "paki scum" being sprayed on a mosque, vandalising police vehicles, throwing bricks at shoppers... from a previous "peaceful march" in my city from a fascist organisation.

I cannot tolerate the extremists from either side either. One of the biggest mistakes of the Democrats was to not criticize the BLM protests when they became violent. That played into the hands of Republicans.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I agree. But I'm not mad on tolerating attacking the police, "paki scum" being sprayed on a mosque, vandalising police vehicles, throwing bricks at shoppers... from a previous "peaceful march" in my city from a fascist organisation.

I cannot tolerate the extremists from either side either. One of the biggest mistakes of the Democrats was to not criticize the BLM protests when they became violent. That played into the hands of Republicans.

I agree with both of you and it seems like we've all found common ground. Violent protest is when things get out of hand and shouldn't be tolerated. Vocal protest, on the other hand, shouldn't be barred regardless of what the voices are saying.

 

[Kooky]

I think it is a morally bankrupt position to focus entirely on the formal component of political expression without looking at the ideas that are being expressed and the goals that are being advanced with that expression. Some protests are more legitimate than others, and some ideas are clearly going to be a problem no matter how "peacefully" they are being expressed.

To put it in extreme terms, nobody should stand for the peaceful advocacy of ethnic cleansing (and before you slag me for creating a ridiculous example on purpose, "alt right" Neonazis have advocated just such a thing in the recent past).

 

[Aštra’el]

Because neither racism nor fascism should be tolerated.

According to you. If my Weltanschauung incorporates some fascist elements, what’s it to you?

 

[Aštra’el]

Should there be liberty for the intolerant?

“...One nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all.”
-Excerpt from the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States


“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
-Excerpt from the Constitution of the United States of America

 

[Secret Chief]

According to you. If my Weltanschauung incorporates some fascist elements, what’s it to you?

It is something I have an opinion on.

 

[Secret Chief]

If you must ask this of me, then I suggest
remedial reading comprehension training.

"One might find kinship & common goals"

I comprehend that just fine.

 

[Revoltingest]

"One might find kinship & common goals"
I comprehend that just fine.

You should read more of the post (#62) than just the portion you
quoted. Better yet...read my whole conversation with Koldo to
understand it. That would help with comprehension....& you'd
avoid the embarrassing presumption of nazi apologetics.

There's a common failure in communication between people who
disagree, ie, the tendency to not try to understand the people on
the other side, & to merely demonize them. But if one discusses
things in common in a friendly & interested manner, then there's
opportunity to change minds.

Again, I'll trot out my favorite example of engaging
the enemy being more effective than invective...
Daryl Davis - Wikipedia

 

[Secret Chief]

You should read more of the post (#62) than just the portion you
quoted. Better yet...read my whole conversation with Koldo to
understand it. That would help with comprehension....& you'd
avoid the embarrassing presumption of nazi apologetics.

There's a common failure in communication between people who
disagree, ie, the tendency to not try to understand the people on
the other side, & to merely demonize them. But if one discusses
things in common in a friendly & interested manner, then there's
opportunity to change minds.

Again, I'll trot out my favorite example of engaging
the enemy being more effective than invective...
Daryl Davis - Wikipedia

I read your whole post and the whole thread.

 

[Revoltingest]

I read your whole post and the whole thread.

Oh, dear.
It might be beyond my ability to help,
but I won't give up on you.