Response: Actually, Ba'al is making excellent points which you can't combat, making you put up your guard. Clearly your own ego gets in the way of your arguments. Evidence to that is the fact that you would address two other posters above concerning Ba'al. One would only do so because they're seeking support from the others to support their argument. That alone is self admission of not only your ego, but a flawed logic to begin with. Why else would someone address other posters concerning another poster? The reason is clear.
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Should we fear Islam?
- Thread starter sonofskeptish
- Start date
Response: Actually, Ba'al is making excellent points which you can't combat, making you put up your guard. Clearly your own ego gets in the way of your arguments. Evidence to that is the fact that you would address two other posters above concerning Ba'al. One would only do so because they're seeking support from the others to support their argument. That alone is self admission of not only your ego, but a flawed logic to begin with. Why else would someone address other posters concerning another poster? The reason is clear.
It is self-evidently absurd to say the extremists are no threat. The media reports on Islamic extremism, suicide bombers and hostage-takers, not the moderates going about their rightful business. And it is a slur upon the moderates to imply that they will resort to extremism merely because they perceive Islam as getting a bad press.
Response: What's absurd is to call something absurd, with no logical backening to support such a claim, as you just have.
gnostic
The Lost One
fatihah said:
Fatihah. I think you will have to re-read cottage's post again, because you're misunderstanding what he has written.
Cottage is saying moderates WILL NOT resort to extremism because of any bad press. I believe what he is saying that the media don't have influences on them.
It is you who seem to think the media can influence them to become extremists.
fatihah said:
So the question is, do you think peaceful Muslims can become violent ones, merely by media reports?
Do you really think Muslims are so weak-willed that they are controlled by western media?
If you think so, then they (peaceful Muslims) are not as strong in that faith as you thought they were.
Revivalist Muslims such as the Taliban would consider you an Apostate Esalam, how do you feel about that,Qutbist Muslims consider most other Muslims as such,especially those living in democracies under Human rule.
Islamists are the ones to fear,Al Banna and the Muslim Brotherhood are connected to Hamas and many other such organisations,same goes for Qutb who's writings go a long way to understanding extremism.
Response: I did not misunderstand. He clearly said that it's absurd to say that extremist are not a threat, to which I commented on. There's nothing misunderstanding about that. I believe you overlooked that part.
As for your question, muslim or not, not everyone has the same humility. What will turn you off may be different than what will turn me off. What may likely irritate you and make you lose your composure may not have the same affect on me. That is what I am saying.
So yes, it is possible for someone who advocates peace to be fed up with the media picking on them, and may want to take action. Muslim or not. Let's replace the negativity of the media towards islam and direct it towards your mother. How humble and disciplined would you be if the media said that your mother was this and that? Perhaps you are very humble and disciplined and it won't cause any rise from you. That is excellent. However, many may not have the same composure. That is all I am saying. Muslim or not, not everyone has the same composure. I don't suggest that muslims are "weak-willed". I 'm saying that all humans, muslim or not, do not have the same humility when it comes to them being attacked or you attack something they love.
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tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Could that action be violence?
Response: Yes. I however do not agree with such actions, but that is the reality of the matter.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Would you agree that those who commit violence in the name of religion, or as a reaction to a perceived insult to their religion, are doing themselves and their religion a disservice?
Response: It would depend on what you mean by violence in the name of religion. But to cause violence simply because someone insulted your religion would be doing a disservice to themself and the religion. But since religion is an ideology, it should be judged by what it teaches, and not solely by the individuals who claim to follow it.
Gabethewiking
Active Member
Physical harm to others?
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Let's say a group of people who read into their scriptures a command to kill in order to liberate certain holy sites. Not just those who occupy the sites. But those whom they perceive to be supportive of the occupations.
Would this be a justifiable reason for violence? In your opinion?
So Al Qaeda aren't extremists and had nothing to do with the Twin Towers outrage? And the four Muslim men who carried out the London bombing weren't extremists? I suppose Bin Laden isn't an extremist and doesn't pose any threat, either?
Gabethewiking
Active Member
Take the London Bombing, according to he Muslims here, do you consider them muslim or not muslim? They claim to be muslim, they claim to have done it in Islams name. Just as any muslim suicide bomber does it in the name of Allah!
Are you saying anyone doing anything you do not like (subjective) is not "truly" a muslim, or how does this go?
Are you saying anyone doing anything you do not like (subjective) is not "truly" a muslim, or how does this go?
Response: Violence in self-defense or to defend others from unjust acts and harm is the only violence allowed in islam.
Gabethewiking
Active Member
So harming others is something that is considered okey in Muslim eyes, correct?
Response: I don't know what you mean by liberating a holy site. But if someone tried to take over something which is not theirs, such as a holy site, then they should be subdued by the authorities of that country, not by any individuals. Killing them would not be justified.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
That's unfair Gabe. He gave you a reasonable answer, only self defence or in the defence of others is violence permitted. This is no different from the predominant opinion in secular cultures.
Response: If they did carry out these acts, then they are extremists. Yet, this does not mean that islam is a threat, but that they are a threat to those they encounter.
Response: If the London Bombers considered themselves muslims, then they are not muslims. Not because they do things which muslims don't like, but the simple fact that their actions are not condoned by any teaching of islam.