Should we fear Islam?

[Ba'al]

:biglaugh:

somebody doesnt read history much!...Anyone here recall Timur? Or the Ottoman Empire?

If you're picking out instances of history where peace didn't cultivated peace, I can pick out more than that. Now, if you're trying to make a case that peace cultivates aggression, or that aggression cultivates peace, we're all ears.

 

[AxisMundi]

Other than Pastafarians ... I'm not afraid of spaghetti.

Fear the Holy Noodly appendages of the FSM, heathen!

 

[Autodidact]

Response: If the London Bombers considered themselves muslims, then they are not muslims. Not because they do things which muslims don't like, but the simple fact that their actions are not condoned by any teaching of islam.

But they're condoned by the teaching of Islam that they and their leaders follow, are they not? If your position is that their actions are un-Islamic, wouldn't it make more sense to take that up with them? Do you expect non-Muslims to determine what true Islamic teachings are and which Muslims are following them?

Are you arguing that anyone who does something inconsistent with your version of Islamic teachings is not a real Muslim?

 

[Autodidact]

Response: None of the acts are justified by any teaching of islam. Islamic authorities can claim "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" because they have no difficulty in implementing the law.

O.K., so I guess there are millions of people in the world who call themselves Muslim but who are not true Muslims?

 

[.lava]

O.K., so I guess there are millions of people in the world who call themselves Muslim but who are not true Muslims?

oh dear...what's wrong with you? why do you keep asking this weird question? one becomes Muslim if he wants to, by that he accepts there is one Creator, he confirms existance of angels, after life, Prophets and holy books. studying Qur'an is individual's responsibility as a Muslim. not everyone does that but they are still Muslims for accepting certain things and claiming to be one. what's there you don't get?

.

 

[xkatz]

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

-Franklin D Roosevelt

 

[AxisMundi]

Response: If the London Bombers considered themselves muslims, then they are not muslims. Not because they do things which muslims don't like, but the simple fact that their actions are not condoned by any teaching of islam.

No True Scotsman Fallacy.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Is it 'fair' to everyone that describes themselves as 'muslim' to be lumped in with the weirdy-beardy exploding/infidel killing variety? Well no, but that isn't really important. 'fairness' is a touchy feely leftist idea that doesn't often aply in the real world.

The fact of the matter is that 'islam' is producing a backward thinking and destructive influence on the world society at large. The fact is is that it is causing outrage all over the western world that Muslims spread like a plague and carry with them a sense of entitlement that could reach the moon. No amount of leftist propaganda or moral outrage is going to make this untrue, at least not in the mind of western society at large.

The moderates provide a cushion, or safety net for the extremists, on the one hand offering lip service to the idea that the extremists are not 'true' muslims, while all the while breeding more extremists.

The sacrosanct doctrine of 'tolerance' needs to be questioned before it is too late.

The entire middle east should be turned into a parking lot.

 

[maro]

Are you arguing that anyone who does something inconsistent with your version of Islamic teachings is not a real Muslim?

It's not his version..it's the version of a billion muslims except for a very small extremist minority....so , why would you take the version of a tiny minority as representative of the faith held by more than a billion peaceful muslims all over the world....is it because it's all over the media day and night ?!! is it because they have the louder voice and they make news ? Is it boring to consider the day to day muslims who happen to be the majority in 57 countries and a minority all over the world as representatives of the faith ? ...In other words ,is it more interesting to trace every wrongdoing done by a muslim on the planet and make a fuss about it ?!! , I am sure that wouldn't be a tough job for you considring that muslims are already one quarter of the world population...and considering that many muslim countries are currently going through the hard time ,and occupied by tyrants who are no way represenatatives of islam

I am not denying that there are muslims who misrepresent the religion in many ways...and we have denounced that over and over....but is it fair and objective not to tell the other side of the story , Auto ? . I am not , by any means , doubting your sincerity when you bring topics against Islam up...i am sure that your concerns and fears are sincere and probably to some extent understandable . However , Why not tell the other side of the story ? why not talk about the hard time the european muslims are going through thanks to the racist speech and attitude that's being promoted against them ? why not talk about the hard times the middle eastern muslims are going through fighting against tyrants that happen to be suppported by your country ? why not talk about the discrimination faced by muslims in countries like china and Russia ?

And since you are a jew , and supposedly an honest person ,why haven't i heard you condemning the massacring of civilians in Gaza ?!!

 

[maro]

What about something like letting school children name their stuff toys, where one child call it "Mohammed"? Did you think the teacher deserve flogging? (The boy's name was Mohammed, and said he name the toy after himself, but the authorities and the school-board wouldn't even listen to the boy's plea to spare the teacher, and they charged and convicted her with blasphemy, as if Muhammad is a god.)

This response of the authorities in this incident is not acceptable ,IMO...the teacher , unlike the danish cartoonist , didn't mean any harm or insult....she was just ignorant of the islamic rule on the issue..no one can blame her ,she is not a muslim....i think a decent conversation would have solved the issue

Or the Danish cartoonist or editor? Do you think they deserve death, when neither of them kill a Muslim? A satire doesn't equate with murder.

No ,they don't deserve death...they deserve to be ignored

 

[maro]

I've posted those videos before..but i see fit to post them here again..they are related to the topic and very informative

[youtube]6Oh1DDFx6Kk[/youtube]
YouTube - WHY DO YOU KILL ZAID?

[youtube]Bn12s19X8xU[/youtube]
YouTube - Who Speaks for Islam: What a Billion Muslims Really Think

 

[Ba'al]

The fact of the matter is that 'islam' is producing a backward thinking and destructive influence on the world society at large.

Maybe you can share with us the teachings of Islam that are producing these phenomena.

The fact is is that it is causing outrage all over the western world that Muslims spread like a plague... .

Is that a reflection of Islam or the western world?

The sacrosanct doctrine of 'tolerance' needs to be questioned before it is too late.

We invade and occupy 2 of their countries for reasons still unknown for nearly a decade and we are too tolerant of them?

The entire middle east should be turned into a parking lot.

I think your house should be turned into a parking lot.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Maybe you can share with us the teachings of Islam that are producing these phenomena.

Good question, but really, a side note at best. When a building is on fire, the first thing to do is put it out. figuring out what caused it comes later.

 

[Ba'al]

Good question, but really, a side note at best. When a building is on fire, the first thing to do is put it out. figuring out what caused it comes later.

So you actually don't know any teachings of Islam that say this but thought it was a relevant statement?
What fire is it we need to put out?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

The point is the 'teachings' don't matter. What matters is the real world effects the followers of your religion are having on the world at large.

 

[Ba'al]

The point is the 'teachings' don't matter. What matters is the real world effects the followers of your religion are having on the world at large.

"My religion"? I don't practice any religion, I study it. What real world effects on the world at large? Answer that along with the other questions you dodged. It's best to produce evidence in your responses so your argument holds weight. This is in the debate section.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

 

[gnostic]

This response of the authorities in this incident is not acceptable ,IMO...the teacher , unlike the danish cartoonist , didn't mean any harm or insult....she was just ignorant of the islamic rule on the issue..no one can blame her ,she is not a muslim....i think a decent conversation would have solved the issue

I agreed.

The teacher didn't do anything wrong. The boy named the toy, and his own name was Mohammed. The boy could have easily named the toy after himself and not the prophet. The boy pleaded for the teacher to be spared. The teacher was found guilty but was spared only because of media attention on the court case, causing governments around to put pressure on country's leader in Sudan. Ms Gibbson didn't even deserve the 15-day jail sentence that the court handed down.

The charge and conviction, and the riots - all of these - the Sudanese Muslims, government and court did more damages Islam worldwide because of their brutal stupidity and oversensitiveness.

No ,they don't deserve death...they deserve to be ignored

Agreed, again. To me, it is too trivial.

Cartoons have been used for centuries in Western world, to satirise political and public social leaders. And if you are a target, then you have to either laugh it off or just ignore it. Getting offended, and causing riots over it, doesn't help the person or the rioters.

I live in Australia, and the cartoonists often target politicians and leaders. None of them ever bat their eyes over the caricatures made of them. And I am sure George Bush get tonnes of it, all over the world including in Australia, when he was president, as will Obama and all future leaders, but I don't see him (Bush) trying to censor it. Don't get me, I don't admire Bush at all, so the more caricatures done on him, the better.

 

[Ba'al]

Satans_Serrated_Edge, is that what you have to offer? One event? The retaliation for the US/Israel bombing of Lebanon? What about the real world effects the west is causing by invading/occupying Iraq and Afghanistan which by some estimates are over 1 million deaths? How about the sanctions that killed over 1 million, 500 000 children? No answer to my other questions?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Calm down angry nun. Firstly, your other questions aren't relevant. I don't care about islamic doctrine or the islamic plight. I only see the effects of islam on the world, and I don't like what I see. Also, I have no idea why you assume I should automatically be supporting the USA just because I see islam for what it is. A virus.