YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Given that you have the casualty figures at your fingertips, Ba'al, can you provide any estimates on the number of Muslims killed by fellow Muslims in Iraq?
I did a quick search and didn't find anything of any note.
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Should we fear Islam?
- Thread starter sonofskeptish
- Start date
I did a quick search and didn't find anything of any note.
Ba'al
Active Member
Well I guess you've answered your own question.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
A most instructive answer, Ba'al.
I noticed Ba'al that you have a big downer of the West,it seems the West can do nothing right,first the West is wrong because we supported Sadaam Hussien even though our Governments were aware of the crimes he commited which i agree was very bad and quite discusting.
Then the West is wrong for putting sanctions on regimes that persecute its own People when in reality the deaths through sanctions are the result of a Government not having its Peoples interest at the top of its agenda,look at Iran for example should we continue with sanctions against them or just give Ahmadinejad a big hug.
Iraq was a Country ruled by a minority,the Baath party which was a Sunni Muslim organisation ruled by fear,Sunni Muslims only make up one third of Iraqs population the rest are Shi'ite hence he persecuted and slaughtered both Shi'ite and Kurd.
A question for you,every time a bomb kills some Shi'ite Muslims do you consider it the fault of the West as well or the Muslim hand on the detonator?
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Sireal
Setian
Sonofskeptish wrote:"So that's why I ask my question... should we be concerned about this battle between these opposing groups to define Islam... because of what it might mean to the rest of us?"
"And if so, what can we do about it?"
No concern at all. Don't do anything, or ask yourself~ What Can you Do??? Leave them alone, stop reporting/paying attention to their idiocy in the media and fer christ's sake stop giving these idiots money!
The constructs of the Right Hand Path dominate the world and have for a long time-big! powerful! well monied!and love destruction of everything they hate-war/jihad on whatever their cookie cutter "god's" will is and they are doing a fine job of wiping each other out.
Stay out the way of the bombs-Hazard operates no matter what religion you have or dont have.
"And if so, what can we do about it?"
No concern at all. Don't do anything, or ask yourself~ What Can you Do??? Leave them alone, stop reporting/paying attention to their idiocy in the media and fer christ's sake stop giving these idiots money!
The constructs of the Right Hand Path dominate the world and have for a long time-big! powerful! well monied!and love destruction of everything they hate-war/jihad on whatever their cookie cutter "god's" will is and they are doing a fine job of wiping each other out.
Stay out the way of the bombs-Hazard operates no matter what religion you have or dont have.
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IMO the only Islam to fear is the one promoted by the Muslim Brotherhood who's new leader has said "we shall continue with Qutbs reforms" ,anyone who has actually read Qutbs reforms would immediately see the reason to fear it,they are a threat to Muslims as much as anyone else.
The MB's founder Hasan Al Banna wrote a book "The way of Jihad" in which he has twisted the meaning of Jihad to what we see today from terrorist attacks,his influence can be clearly seen in Hamas just as Qutbs influence on Al Qaeda and other such groups can be seen.
The worrying thing is Qutb and Al Banna are regarded as revivalists who want to turn society back 1400 years and the Muslim Brotherhood are not restricted to Egypt and has branches in over 60 Countries,its Motto says a lot The organization's motto is as follows: “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope” .
This type of ideology isn't just a threat to people worldwide but a threat to every Muslim that does'nt fit in with it,a Muslim that lives under Secular rule for example is considered an Apostate by Qutb and his followers and IMO this is the Islam to be feared.
The MB's founder Hasan Al Banna wrote a book "The way of Jihad" in which he has twisted the meaning of Jihad to what we see today from terrorist attacks,his influence can be clearly seen in Hamas just as Qutbs influence on Al Qaeda and other such groups can be seen.
The worrying thing is Qutb and Al Banna are regarded as revivalists who want to turn society back 1400 years and the Muslim Brotherhood are not restricted to Egypt and has branches in over 60 Countries,its Motto says a lot The organization's motto is as follows: “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope” .
This type of ideology isn't just a threat to people worldwide but a threat to every Muslim that does'nt fit in with it,a Muslim that lives under Secular rule for example is considered an Apostate by Qutb and his followers and IMO this is the Islam to be feared.
maro
muslimah
I guess you have said something similar before..and that i have corrected you before..but you seem to be resistant to anything that doesn't fit into the image you already have
and btw, what's wrong with the MB 's Motto ?! , it sounds very beautiful to me !!
I think its ok up until this part "Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope this is the ugly part and reading Al Banna's "the way of Jihad" its easy to see why i would consider it ugly,besides would it not be better to live in the way of Allah.
The MB are continuing on Qutbs reforms,Qutb and Al Banna's ideaology spreads hatred for anything not Islamist and promotes the "Zionist conspiracy" nonsense and has even twisted the meaning of Jihad.
maro
muslimah
Jihad is an arabic word that means to struggle...and yes it's great to live in the way of allah...and even greater if this blessed life ended in the way of allah....i still don't see where the ugliness is
listen..the Mb don't have a military wing right now...they used to have one...but now ,they are a mere sociopolitical movement that enjoys wide acceptance in Egypt and other countires
the other thing , is that they call for a civil ruling system..not ' welayat faqih '....and acknowledge the rights of minorities as well
Reading ' milestones' doesn't make you an expert on the MB affairs , EMH....the book was written in different circumstances Egypt was going through during the time of abdul nasser......so ,if you want really to learn about them ,you have at least 5 active egyptian members on the forum....why don't you try to listen to them instead of the unjustified self righteousness that you apparently suffer from
Self righteous Moi,thats mildly amusing comming from a religious person to a non religious person oh the irony.
Actually some Egyptian members thought that the MB wer continuing on the path of Al Banna,i of course being helpful pointed out that it was Quts reforms that the MB were on which of course would be so helpful to the Middle East and the MB can provide all the bigoted violent negative intollerance it could ever want of course i'm a Jahili so what do i know
maro
muslimah
You know what ? you seem to have a very serious problem...you don't seem to read or listen to what i say....instead ,you keep parrotting the same things over and over no matter what was the content of the post you are replying to...i guess not4me wasn't mistaken when she said that you are a hopeless case
I am telling you that the MB is a sociopolitical movement with no military wing...do you get what i am telling you ?!!!
And what's exactly your problem with al jihad ?!!...it's a religious tenet ,dude....not something invented by al imam al bana....so ,why are you making fuss over it ?
No it was'nt invented by Al Banna,twisted perhaps but not invented although he did go a long way in inventing the great Zionist conspiracy along with Qutb.
Ba'al
Active Member
The sanctions were wrong because they do not target the government or military. They target the civilian population and thus are illegal under international humanitarian law. It is no different than bombing civilians and one could argue worse as the lack of medical supplies and food kill seems to kill more children. Is that ok because Saddam won't conform to the our wants?
Uranium enrichment is legal under international law and we do it all the time. Why do you think the EU is so critical of the sanctions? It's clear Iran won't conform to the US and why should they? What's the point of making more enemies?
U.S. sanctions against Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Saddam was a bad leader to his people. Does that merrit the death and destruction we've handed the Iraqis?
If it's from a muslim it's their business.
yes , indeed it's a wonderful organization...wether you like it or not, May allah bless them..Ameen
I am in awe as to just how wonderful they are heres a refresher from their Charter:
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Moslem Brotherhood in Palestine. Moslem Brotherhood Movement is a universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times. It is characterised by its deep understanding, accurate comprehension and its complete embrace of all Islamic concepts of all aspects of life, culture, creed, politics, economics, education, society, justice and judgement, the spreading of Islam, education, art, information, science of the occult and conversion to Islam.
Al Banna was so sociable
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
So only casualties caused by the West is the business of everyone all the others carried out by religious nutcases are ok
Troublemane
Well-Known Member
No I was speaking to your assertion that islamic extremism was a response to western extremism, and you then used George Bush as your example. The examples I gave were of Islamic expansionism and conquest long before there ever was a USA.
Its just the nature of people to seek to seize power when there is a power vacuum. It does not matter who they are, be they christian or muslim. And I must point out ...Your argument that an example of peace will be met with peace is completely wrong, IMO. History has shown that again and again and again. Seeking peace with someone who just wants war will only lead to you getting stabbed in the back. (Arafat, for example, never ever wanted peace and always sabotaged it any chance he got.)
Troublemane
Well-Known Member
But, in my personal answer to the OP, should we (i take that to mean, us westerners) fear Islam itself?....No, I don't think so. If muslims are currently undergoing a kind of rennaissance, I think we should encourage them, not detract them. By attacking all muslims we make the extremists seem that they are right.
However, by giving support to muslims the west considers "western friendly", we also make them a target for islamic extremists. So what should we do then? Withdraw help? Or give it? Either way, the extremist will win in the political war. Those who have western support will seem to be mere puppets of the west, while those without support may be too scared to speak out.
I can only hope that the more muslims who live in areas with better economic conditions and better livelihoods become to enjoy the life of the first world nations, and the freedoms and benefits it offers, but still--thats the typical capitalist solution--seeking a completely materialist solution to the problem. So, Ill just say, peace will have to come from people wanting it. It has to come from inside the people themselves.
That's all. :angel2:
However, by giving support to muslims the west considers "western friendly", we also make them a target for islamic extremists. So what should we do then? Withdraw help? Or give it? Either way, the extremist will win in the political war. Those who have western support will seem to be mere puppets of the west, while those without support may be too scared to speak out.
I can only hope that the more muslims who live in areas with better economic conditions and better livelihoods become to enjoy the life of the first world nations, and the freedoms and benefits it offers, but still--thats the typical capitalist solution--seeking a completely materialist solution to the problem. So, Ill just say, peace will have to come from people wanting it. It has to come from inside the people themselves.
That's all. :angel2:
I don't know Mayada, since he knew about something called Muslim Brotherhood and Sayyed Qutb (a couple of months ago), he didn't stop repeating this stuff all over the forum.
:areyoucra