Should we fear Islam?

[sonofskeptish]

I have just finished the book "The Great Theft" by Islamic scholar Khaledm Abou El Fadl.

In it, he describes how "Islam is currently passing through a transformative period no less dramatic than the movements that swept through Europe during the Reformation."

He describes how two internal Islamic groups are currently fighting for control of the Islamic faith... the "moderates" who claim Islam is a religion of peace, versus those he labels "puritians"... the "extremists" set on opressive Islamic world domination.

Both of these groups claim they are the only true muslims, and both insist their counterparts misrepresent the Islamic faith.

The author writes that "the stakes (in this battle) have never been higher, and the future of the Muslim world hangs in the balance."

IMO, the stakes are even higher than that... because if it the extremists "win" (and by some accounts they are winning) their agenda is clear... Islamic world domination a'la Taliban.

While Islamic "moderates" say Islam is peacful, Islamic "puritans" demonstrate their version is not... with suicide attacks, bombing planes/trains/buses/cars, issuing fatwas on authors, murdering film producers, forcing politicians into hiding, violent rampages over cartoons, etc.

So that's why I ask my question... should we be concerned about this battle between these opposing groups to define Islam... because of what it might mean to the rest of us?

And if so, what can we do about it?

 

[Darkness]

Secularists in the Western world should use all their resources to support and empower moderate and liberal Muslim groups. Bosnian-Herzegovina is a good example of a predominately Muslim society that has embraced liberalism. Atheists are not shunned in society and a Muslim television actor did gay porn, without being ostracized. There is hope.

 

[xxclaro]

I think it is definitley a concern, but as to what we can do about it I'm not sure. Muslims have managed to live peacefully with their neighbours in the past,which gives me hope that we'll see this again in the future. However, muslim extremists are a threat,no doubt about it. I'm really not sure what the best course of action is here. I support freedom of religion and freedom of speech, but somewhere there must be a line.

 

[sonofskeptish]

"U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says trans-national Islamic extremist networks pose greater threats to the United States than the nuclear programs of Iran and North Korea."

Clinton: Islamic Extremist Groups Pose Greatest Security Threat to US | News | English

 

[Fatihah]

I have just finished the book "The Great Theft" by Islamic scholar Khaledm Abou El Fadl.

In it, he describes how "Islam is currently passing through a transformative period no less dramatic than the movements that swept through Europe during the Reformation."

He describes how two internal Islamic groups are currently fighting for control of the Islamic faith... the "moderates" who claim Islam is a religion of peace, versus those he labels "puritians"... the "extremists" set on opressive Islamic world domination.

Both of these groups claim they are the only true muslims, and both insist their counterparts misrepresent the Islamic faith.

The author writes that "the stakes (in this battle) have never been higher, and the future of the Muslim world hangs in the balance."

IMO, the stakes are even higher than that... because if it the extremists "win" (and by some accounts they are winning) their agenda is clear... Islamic world domination a'la Taliban.

While Islamic "moderates" say Islam is peacful, Islamic "puritans" demonstrate their version is not... with suicide attacks, bombing planes/trains/buses/cars, issuing fatwas on authors, murdering film producers, forcing politicians into hiding, violent rampages over cartoons, etc.

So that's why I ask my question... should we be concerned about this battle between these opposing groups to define Islam... because of what it might mean to the rest of us?

And if so, what can we do about it?

Response: The extremists have no control over any land, nor are they getting close in doing so. So they are no threat.

What you should worry about is the media which portrays islam in a
negative manner. For they are the reason why the extremists are gaining so much ground to begin with, due to their attacks on islam. Such propaganda can convince the muslims who are peaceful to perhaps reconsider, because their religion is constantly under attack.

 

[challupa]

Well, knowing how the war in the early days of Christianity went, I really don't like our odds. The more peaceful gnostics lost out to orthodox christianity and the world was plunged into the dark ages. I don't know if the peaceful muslims can control the extremists. I think Fatihah has a point when he says that the western media's attacks on Islam is turning some peaceful Muslims into more extremist muslims because they don't like their religion attacked. I can see that could happen. We need to be supportive of the peaceful, moderate Islam and help them fight against the extremists that are making life hard for those in Islam that just want peace and the right to practice their religious beliefs. We see extremists in Christianity and Judaism too. These people are the enemies of peace, not the majority of Muslims, Christians and Jews that want to worship in peace.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Mohammad is reported to have asked his followers to go even to China, if necessary, to seek knowledge. But it appears that a large number of Muslims believe that it is not necessary to go beyond the Quran to seek knowledge. The Vedic injunction is to let knowledge come from all sides, yet we have Hindus whose world-view is restricted to their caste affiliations. This narrowness of mind has to be replaced with a mind that accepts that life affords all possibilities and we only lose if we are predisposed to limited possibilities. A narrow (fragmented) mind is a danger, whoever owns it.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Response: The extremists have no control over any land, nor are they getting close in doing so. So they are no threat..

What you should worry about is the media which portrays islam in a
negative manner. For they are the reason why the extremists are gaining so much ground to begin with, due to their attacks on islam. Such propaganda can convince the muslims who are peaceful to perhaps reconsider, because their religion is constantly under attack.

Isn't Iran, Afganistan and Somalia "land"?

The muslim faith has been hijacked from within and you point fingers.

Instead of blaming the media, consider the impact of statements like yours... suggesting moderate muslims might reconsider and become extremists.

You do more harm to your faith with such comments than any media report could.

 

[Ba'al]

And if so, what can we do about it?

Sonofskeptish, that sounds like a good book. IMO, muslim extremists are cultivated by western extremism (George B., iraq, afganistan invasions). A quick look into history shows a peaceful example will promote peace, where as aggressive tendancies promote aggression.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Sonofskeptish, that sounds like a good book. IMO, muslim extremists are cultivated by western extremism (George B., iraq, afganistan invasions). A quick look into history shows a peaceful example will promote peace, where as aggressive tendancies promote aggression.

While certianly a contributing factor, I do not believe 2 wrongs make a right, and when one reads about the "puritan" (extremist) version of Islam, it is a scary thing indeed.

 

[Ba'al]

Isn't Iran, Afganistan and Somalia "land"?

Iran hasn't taken any military action in the recent past. Iraq and Afganistan were not a problem until we invaded them. Somalia is an internal political problem. From BBC News: "Somalia has been without an effective central government since President Siad Barre was overthrown in 1991. Years of fighting between rival warlords and an inability to deal with famine and disease have led to the deaths of up to one million people".

 

[sonofskeptish]

Iran hasn't taken any military action in the recent past. Iraq and Afganistan were not a problem until we invaded them. Somalia is an internal political problem. From BBC News: "Somalia has been without an effective central government since President Siad Barre was overthrown in 1991. Years of fighting between rival warlords and an inability to deal with famine and disease have led to the deaths of up to one million people".

What's your point?

My reference to Iran, Afganistan and Somalia was in response to a claim that Islamic "extremists have no control over any land". I was giving examples of "land" under Islamic extremist control. Or are you saying these are not Islamic countries with extremists running wild in them?

Try telling the women of Afganistan that the Taliban "were not a problem until we invaded them" and see what kind of response you get. Or if you prefer, I have some good Iranian friends that have recently fled to Canada that I'm sure would love to enlighten you on the pleasures of living in an Islamic state.

The way the Taliban treat their women (I' have some video links if you'd like me to share them) is what Islamic extremists have planned for the rest of us if they win their fight to control the rudder of Islam.

So back to the question in the OP... should we be scared, and if so, what should we do about it?

 

[challupa]

If extreme Islam has any chance of running the world, yes we should be afraid, very afraid.:yes:

 

[Kerr]

I don´t think that we should fear Islam, no.

 

[Snowber]

Sounds like an interesting book.

[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

Whether you believe the Koran or not this verse clearly discredits much of what extremist Muslims teach today. Rather the extremist Muslim would rather scoop you up in a time of vulnerability, like when you've lost a family member to "the evil West" and turn that around into making you a weapon in their arsenal.

In fact, most of the "religious" support extremists use come from unauthorized texts they claim to be religious.

 

[Ba'al]

What's your point?

My reference to Iran, Afganistan and Somalia was in response to a claim that Islamic "extremists have no control over any land". I was giving examples of "land" under Islamic extremist control. Or are you saying these are not Islamic countries with extremists running wild in them?

Try telling the women of Afganistan that the Taliban "were not a problem until we invaded them" and see what kind of response you get. Or if you prefer, I have some good Iranian friends that have recently fled to Canada that I'm sure would love to enlighten you on the pleasures of living in an Islamic state.

The way the Taliban treat their women (I' have some video links if you'd like me to share them) is what Islamic extremists have planned for the rest of us if they win their fight to control the rudder of Islam.

So back to the question in the OP... should we be scared, and if so, what should we do about it?

We should live our lives. Your paranoia of doing something is what caused the mess in the middle east we're in now.

 

[YmirGF]

So back to the question in the OP... should we be scared, and if so, what should we do about it?

No, we should not be scared. Fear will make us witless and we need our wits about us if we are to confront and rise to this challenge in our time. That said, I am not quite sure exactly what we can do to stop this. It is like an outside party intervening between a warring couple or family. If we move in and try to settle things down, they will close ranks, temporarily set aside their differences and take us on for interfering in a domestic squabble. Witness the shenanigans encountered in Iraq & Afghanistan by the various armed forces. They have hardly been treated as liberators or defenders of the people, regardless of how we may view them.

There is also the distinct possibility that if we aggressively support "moderate" Muslims they could become tarred with the brush of hatred by association with "western" policy. The difficulty here is that no one group speaks for all of Islam. Each side can trot out their scholars and make their case, citing appropriate passages from Islamic texts.

To melt the mind of any reader who has spent time on RF, imagine a conversation by two Fatihah's, each arguing from different standpoints. That is somewhat how such a dialogue may well play out - with no conclusive solutions - but with each side believing they had "won" the discussion.

 

[Fatihah]

Isn't Iran, Afganistan and Somalia "land"?

The muslim faith has been hijacked from within and you point fingers.

Instead of blaming the media, consider the impact of statements like yours... suggesting moderate muslims might reconsider and become extremists.

You do more harm to your faith with such comments than any media report could.

Response: If stating the truth is harmful, then it's such statements like yours which is harmful because you condemn what is true, not the other way around.

Iran, Afghanistan and Somalia are lands which are nit goverened by the extremists, so they have no control over any land.

Yes, I point fingers. No different then you point yours. You should reconsider your statements, since you clearly can't refute the statements in which I stated.

 

[Fatihah]

No, we should not be scared. Fear will make us witless and we need our wits about us if we are to confront and rise to this challenge in our time. That said, I am not quite sure exactly what we can do to stop this. It is like an outside party intervening between a warring couple or family. If we move in and try to settle things down, they will close ranks, temporarily set aside their differences and take us on for interfering in a domestic squabble. Witness the shenanigans encountered in Iraq & Afghanistan by the various armed forces. They have hardly been treated as liberators or defenders of the people, regardless of how we may view them.

There is also the distinct possibility that if we aggressively support "moderate" Muslims they could become tarred with the brush of hatred by association with "western" policy. The difficulty here is that no one group speaks for all of Islam. Each side can trot out their scholars and make their case, citing appropriate passages from Islamic texts.

To melt the mind of any reader who has spent time on RF, imagine a conversation by two Fatihah's, each arguing from different standpoints. That is somewhat how such a dialogue may well play out - with no conclusive solutions - but with each side believing they had "won" the discussion.

Response: There can be no solution to stop it, if islam is portrayed in a negative manner by the media. The nations which are the stongest is the Western nations. So the west can easily bring a solution, by helping to support those muslims who reject extremism. However, the west clearly has the own agenda, so they won't do so, and is largely responsible for the chaos which takes place by extremists. Evidence of this is the simple fact that they are so desperate to attack the West. The media tries to portray islam , as if they know the religion and are in support of it, but are underhandedly, supporting the concept of negativity in islam.

An example contrary to your logic, to melt the mind of any reader who has spent time on RF, imagine a conversation by two YmirGF's, each in which would only be in support of each other. This is how such a dialogue would play out- with no conclusive solutions-but with each side plotting their own agenda in support of another, subliminally bringing more chaos to the situation.

 

[eatingcannibal]

Response: The extremists have no control over any land, nor are they getting close in doing so. So they are no threat.

What you should worry about is the media which portrays islam in a
negative manner. For they are the reason why the extremists are gaining so much ground to begin with, due to their attacks on islam. Such propaganda can convince the muslims who are peaceful to perhaps reconsider, because their religion is constantly under attack.

Islam earns its own reputation. The atrocities its doctrines result in absolutely should be broadcast; it shows what such beliefs are capable of manifesting as, even when seemingly benign (as you yourself even hinted at: "Such propaganda can convince the muslims who are peaceful to perhaps reconsider...").