Should you believe the trinity doctrine?

[sojourner]

where does it say "trinity" in the Bible?

Where does it say "internet" in the bible? Yet you're using it here to "spread the word."

 

[sojourner]

It makes no difference that it may have been "the tiniest seed known in Israel." The Bible doesn't qualify it as such or in any other way. It flat out says "Though it is the smallest of all seeds," which is plainly incorrect.

Even if it is the tiniest seed known in Israel, it's still a scientific inaccuracy.

 

[sojourner]

Well your entitled to your opinion but it says a circle, and your explaination made no sense.

The earth is patently not a circle. A circle is flat, not spherical.

 

[sojourner]

No, sir. It was directly inspired by the Holy Spirit sent from God. Therefore it is 100% accurate and reliable.

Those who do not believe in God or spirits cannot accept this, of course.

No, it's not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is 0 archaeological evidence that Israelites were ever in Egypt. There's also 0 archaeological evidence for a mass invasion into Canaan of any outside group.

 

[sojourner]

That scripture cannot be used to prove the trinity, because being one is used as in being in union or agreement.

How do you know? Are you saying that a Triune God would not be in union or agreement between the three persons?

 

[sojourner]

I and the Father are one refers to a spiritual union where the son does as the Father commands.What you see with Jesus Christ is what you get with God.Jesus is God's representative here on earth.It in no way refers to a Trinity.The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in this union.

Lets take John 17:21. Here is says, " that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

OK.. Here we have Jesus asking God if the ones with Jesus could also be in union with the Father and Son.Jesus actually says,"just as you are in me and I am in you" So this does not mean they are literally in them.It speaks of a spiritual union.The same as The Father and Son.Notice the Holy Spirit is never mentioned here either.Are we then to believe that these people are also part of the Trinity if they are in the Father and Son too?

Also in John 20:17 Jesus makes it clear there is no Three.Jesus clearly states he has a God and is going to him soon.

"Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

So, it is very clear there is no Trinity and Jesus Christ is not God.God cannot have a God, if He is the Almighty.Jesus Christ is the Son of Jehovah God the Almighty.

You're conveniently forgetting that, according to the doctrine, Jesus is also fully human, meaning that the fully human Jesus would have a God, just as all human beings have a God.

 

[sojourner]

I don't know if you understand what I am saying. That particular scripture you chose as a trinity proof text cannot be used as a proof text, it's not enough nor clear enough.

So the persons of the trinity are all fully God right?

That's not the only text. The Trinity wasn't the result of "proof-texting." It was the result of an exegetical inference.

 

[sojourner]

What is obvious is a traditional teaching that has no biblical backing whatsoever.It has been twisted to mean something it is not.This Trinity doctrine goes back beyond the birth of Christianity.So does the cross.You can see this in Egypt,Greece,Babylonia,Sumeria,India etc.. The Trinitarian belief is a pagan one that goes back further than you think.In Egypt they were using the Ankh cross during the 18th Dynasty, 1500 years before Christ.All of this is common knowledge.The "Christianity" you know is tainted with old Babylonian practices that include sun worship.This can be seen in St.Peters square.The obelisk in the center was brought from Egypt by Caligula.It is a sun worship piece used in pagan rituals.The Egyptians were pagans.Ask yourself,Why would the Vatican have an ancient Egyptian pagan sun worship symbol on the Vatican grounds if they represent God?

All -- repeat -- all religions come from "somewhere else." What's your point? You believe that Christianity is "pure" somehow? That's a load of B.S. Even the Eucharist is a direct rip-off of the Roman symposium.

 

[savagewind]

I would also strongly recommend that you do a little more research before sitting on the fence of not believing in god, every stance that we have should be on a thorough research but I culd share why I believe the bible.

Please thoroughly research Mathew 28:19 and you should see that the idea that people are to make disciples for God was added. It is much more likely that what was intended was this: Jesus saying, "I am going, therefore, YOU disciple nations". To disciple means to stick with the teacher who is Jesus and to behave in a way that glorifies Jehovah. http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/28-19.htm

To be a disciple means to listen to the voice of the shepherd (something Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden to do) and to NOT listen to the voice of strangers.

 

[sojourner]

We have many powerful governments and religious establishments showing us who they truly represent.The clues are right there for anyone to see.

This is nothing more than radical, fundamentalist, fear mongering. As it happens, the U.S. represents ... its people: One nation... under God, I believe.

 

[sojourner]

The point here is to discuss the trinity and defend the truth.

Your "point here" is to do your best to debunk the Trinity, not realizing that, as one valid theological construction, the Trinity is truth, just as other valid theological constructions are truth. You don't really care about "the truth." You only care about your truth.

 

[idav]

I have looked at all those so called scientific inaccuracies, but are you trying to find contradiction, because for example one guy said that god cursed the serpent and it would eat dirt the rest of its days and he said it was in accurate but he is not talking about an actual serpent. so context matters.
Ok answer this question for me:
why are we not perfect as human beings?
Why is there so much suffering?
Will we as mankind ever experience peace?

this is just scratching the surface

you could call it poetry but why didn't this man go with all the other popular ideas of his time?

There is suffering because life is not a given, life is a struggle.

You see a cursed planet, I see one of the most remarkable planets in the universe, far from cursed cause there is life.

Why didn't god make a perfect universe, how do you know he didn't?

 

[sojourner]

But there is no Trinity First Baseman.I understand you are a Catholic, but what the RCC teaches is in now way what Jesus taught.If we are to study and show what the HS actually says,it in no way speaks of a Trinity.Everything the RCC teaches is based on their understanding of things and traditions.Jesus never used idols.Jesus never said he was God.Jesus made it clear he has a God who commands him.There is no place where God tortures you in a fire for all eternity. Al of these things are not what God commands or teaches in His Word.

Teaching has always included the tradition of the church (of which the bible is part). The RCC doesn't use idols. Jesus said that he and the Father are "One." Even in an equal relationship, some one person is in "charge" at any given time. You're really just pi$$ing into the wind, because you don't understand what the RCC believes, or that there are many available interpretations of the texts that make sense.

 

[idav]

Just to point out what you said goes to my point god wants people who want to worship him not forcibly but those who oppose will eventually be destroyed, and god will have a people who want to worship him. there is more to why he allows those people to remain and why he allows things he has a plan and has revealed it in his word the scriptures

Sounds like a god that likes to play games. Why should God need to test something or even test us humans, testing is for beings that don't know everything.

 

[sojourner]

Ps.According to the Holy Scriptures you are incorrect.

P.S. According to how you understand the Holy Scriptures.

 

[sojourner]

I will stick to the holy scriptures for the correct answers.

You will "stick to your particular take on the holy scriptures" for what you believe are the "correct answers."

 

[sojourner]

Actually they did not teach the Trinity.

History disagrees with you.

 

[sojourner]

When something has been taught to you over and over again, and all you know is that,it is easy to get caught up in non biblical teachings.That is why it is very important,if you are going to study,to do so thoroughly.The Trinity is a n old doctrine that is older than Christianity.Do some research.The holy scriptures speaks of those who have their minds seared as if with a hot iron.Meaning that all these non biblical teachings have seared the minds of many and they cannot see the truth.What happens when something is seared? It is all burned and leaves a distinctive marking.All blackened and hard to remove.This is how the minds of those who have been lied to are.This says it all and then some.If you pay attention to the entire passage you can see who it is that does these things.


1 Timothy 4:1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

http://biblehub.com/niv/1_timothy/4.htm

More trumped up proof-texting, whose basis is fundamentalist fear mongering.

 

[sojourner]

When something has been taught to you over and over again, and all you know is that,it is easy to get caught up in non biblical teachings.That is why it is very important,if you are going to study,to do so thoroughly.The Trinity is a n old doctrine that is older than Christianity.Do some research.The holy scriptures speaks of those who have their minds seared as if with a hot iron.Meaning that all these non biblical teachings have seared the minds of many and they cannot see the truth.What happens when something is seared? It is all burned and leaves a distinctive marking.All blackened and hard to remove.This is how the minds of those who have been lied to are.This says it all and then some.If you pay attention to the entire passage you can see who it is that does these things.


1 Timothy 4:1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

http://biblehub.com/niv/1_timothy/4.htm

You, of course, realize that Christianity is older than 1 Timothy, and that it was not considered scripture until the canon was set 450 years after Jesus, after Nicea, after the establishment of the Trinity as the orthodox belief. Therefore, it cannot be applied as a "biblical truth" for circumstances that came before it was scripture.

 

[savagewind]

According to some people to believe something about God it must be written in the Bible. Evidence for BOTH Jesus is God and Jesus isn't God is there. There is no evidence that people must believe either way and make other people believe either way, whichever way they think it is. To be making people believe isn't a command that is written in the Bible, but that is what appears to be going on here.