Sign at George Floyd Square gives list of special orders for white visitors

[Left Coast]

It is when it's directed towards someone's race and specifically points out ones color.

Pointing out someone's color isn't racist, in and of itself. Again, I don't think you know what racism is.

 

[Left Coast]

I can certainly recognize it when it surfaces.

Put a sign up and point out black people without changing a thing except role reversal and the perspective of what and what is not racist takes on a whole new meaning there.

Of course it wouldn't be okay, because black and white people have a completely different racial history and occupy different places in society. There's not a big issue with Asian people pretending racism doesn't exist and attempting to delegitimize any attempts by black people to draw attention to the racist treatment black people receive in our society by pointing out they have a black friend or how hard their lives have been. White people are the folks who are doing that, almost entirely. Yet any time this behavior is pointed out, it gets called "reverse racism." Give me a break.

You would think lessons would be learned by now but they never are.

On that we agree.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So...a dog whistle then?
Dog whistle (politics) - Wikipedia

No. Its not meant to be heard by some and unheard by others. It is a direct challenge to black lives matter. This coming from people who warned me to stay out of the black part of town (where I used to live) because inevitable I'd be mugged; warned me about being in Detroit because "they have a lot of black people;" the sorts who believe it's basically impossible to fire a black person because the NAACP will protect them no matter what; the sorts who believe black people get all sorts of benefits and advantages and have it better than white people who work for their stuff; the type of people so foul they even take it out on kids, disowning interracial grand children amd having their own set of derogatory terms to refer to interracial children; the type so utterly clueless they think racism came to an end when Obama was elected and we live in a post-racist society, and then blame it on black people for keep bringing up race.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course it wouldn't be okay, because black and white people have a completely different racial history

Even black people can have a different background and story from other black people, just as white people have their own differences.
Trying to lump everyone is like pointing to wheat/brown colored in the Middle East and say they all share a similar history. Most definitely that is not the case.
We should really work on learning about people as an individual (which includes group identity), lest we call a black British man an African American.

 

[Left Coast]

Even black people can have a different background and story from other black people, just as white people have their own differences.
Trying to lump everyone is like pointing to wheat/brown colored in the Middle East and say they all share a similar history. Most definitely that is not the case.
We should really work on learning about people as an individual (which includes group identity), lest we call a black British man an African American.

It's both/and. In America our individualism often blinds us to the effects that the groups to which we belong (whether we want to or not) shape who we are, how we're perceived, how we behave, and how others behave toward us. Minorities are usually much more aware of this than those in the majority, because it is the water they swim in constantly. When it gets pointed out to white people, they often become very defensive because they have this idea in their head that all their successes in life are a product of their own efforts, racism is a thing of the past, or is something that affects everyone equally. When all those myths are bull****.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Pointing out someone's color isn't racist, in and of itself. Again, I don't think you know what racism is.

It certainly is when you insinuate its white people whom can't act appropriately around the area where Floyd died to a point you would feel a need to post a directed message exclusively intended for whites.

Of course if your equally blind to what I'm saying as evidenced by your ad homin comment directed at me that somehow this isn't anything racist for which I'm apparently ignorant.

 

[Stevicus]

We should really work on learning about people as an individual (which includes group identity), lest we call a black British man an African American.

Reminds me of a funny journalist from 20-25 years ago who said "African Americans around the world are celebrating the birthday of Nelson Mandela."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Reminds me of a funny journalist from 20-25 years ago who said "African Americans around the world are celebrating the birthday of Nelson Mandela."

Well, the world and universe revolves around America, so sure.

 

[Revoltingest]

Reminds me of a funny journalist from 20-25 years ago who said "African Americans around the world are celebrating the birthday of Nelson Mandela."

I remember Olympics coverage about "African
Americans" coming from around the world.
When they're discouraged from saying "black"
or "negro", what's left, eh.
Language sometimes evolves awkwardly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When it gets pointed out to white people, they often become very defensive because they have this idea in their head that all their successes in life are a product of their own efforts, racism is a thing of the past, or is something that affects everyone equally. When all those myths are bull****.

Why the singling out of white people?
And keep in mind, there are white people who are of a minority, such those with chronic mental illness.
And, on the flip side, there are minorities who blame their every last problem on the majority, do fail to put in effort to improve themselves, and are utterly defeatist. I've known more of these types than I'd care to. The same for those who are very sensitive and highly prone to being offended. And even fully privileged majority white people can be like that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why the singling out of white people?

It's a lens...a weltanschauung.
People tend to see things as part of a basic pattern.
The pattern becomes ingrained, taking on a life of its own.
So it's very useful to watch for & investigate challenges
to that pattern.
- Consume media of different & even opposing agendas.
If not occasionally angered or annoyed, you're doing it wrong.
- Consider uncomfortable & contrary views. Investigate.
- See people as individuals.
- See groups as not homogeneous.
- Listen without anger.
- Don't think of counter-arguments prematurely.
- Eat more bacon. It soothes.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's both/and. In America our individualism often blinds us to the effects that the groups to which we belong (whether we want to or not) shape who we are, how we're perceived, how we behave, and how others behave toward us. Minorities are usually much more aware of this than those in the majority, because it is the water they swim in constantly. When it gets pointed out to white people, they often become very defensive because they have this idea in their head that all their successes in life are a product of their own efforts, racism is a thing of the past, or is something that affects everyone equally. When all those myths are bull****.

All that tells me is there is a belief that skin color is conducent with disposition.

Bit like physical characteristics determine people's demeanour and character?

Now where has that been heard before?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why the singling out of white people?
And keep in mind, there are white people who are of a minority, such those with chronic mental illness.
And, on the flip side, there are minorities who blame their every last problem on the majority, do fail to put in effort to improve themselves, and are utterly defeatist. I've known more of these types than I'd care to. The same for those who are very sensitive and highly prone to being offended. And even fully privileged majority white people can be like that.

That's why I use role reversal . More to a point in regards to role reversal, look at South Africa and treatment of whites over there.

Using logic, a special message directed at blacks over there to please don't be racists?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Methinks that your deep deep emotional scars
from having lived in the Peru IN area has prejudiced
you against the midwest. I've lived here & on both
coasts....places also full of racial & other hostilities..

It's more subtle here, from what I've noticed. Except for one Native guy, he just straight up told he hates black people. Even those around that larger part of Indiana--it's basically most of the northern part of the state that I do know for sure, including Huntington, Rochester, Alexandria, Elwood, Tipton, Gas City, Marion, Noblesville, Russiaville, Winimac, Kokomo (some of these still highly unwelcoming of black people, and way worse than the methed out Peru)--often aren't that honest about it.
Even a friend I grew up with has shocked people in Florida with how bad Indiana really is. And we joked about how when you grow up there you have to unlearn a lot if you desire to partake in civilized, decent culture (and indeed I was corrected often as a kid because I was just using words I heard).
It's not Alabama, but Indiana is pretty bad. That friendly Heartland image is polished dog **** (they aren't very fond of the religious nones, either).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's why I use role reversal . More to a point in regards to role reversal, look at South Africa and treatment of whites over there.

Using logic, a special message directed at blacks over there to please don't be racists?

That's not really a role reversal. It's kind if what we see as a larger trend in human cultures and histories where majorities repress minorities. And often times race isn't involved in these sort of repressions, but could be like the English or Danes enslaving other Europeans or the Ottoman Empire enslaving other Middle Easterners and those around the Mediterranean Sea. The Spartans made it an annual sport to butcher slaves, and the ancient Hebrews recorded laws and policies to regulate their practice of slavery, and they themselves have been enslaved by the Babylonians and Egyptians.
Role reversal would be like Othello, where it is completely reversed to our norms and expectations. A role reversal here would be Anglophone stuff being targetted for the music being automatically rejected, told to act more like the new majority to succeed (leading the Johns and Pauls and Chrises to change their name to sound more whatever), and not having things of meaningful significance to "core WASP culture" not being acknowledged or honored in the mainstream culture, but are themselves expected to celebrate the holidays of the majority even if there is no real reason to (such as, if Fourth of July were struck from the calendars and in its place was Juneteenth).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's a lens...a weltanschauung.
People tend to see things as part of a basic pattern.
The pattern becomes ingrained, taking on a life of its own.
So it's very useful to watch for & investigate challenges
to that pattern.
- Consume media of different & even opposing agendas.
If not occasionally angered or annoyed, you're doing it wrong.
- Consider uncomfortable & contrary views. Investigate.
- See people as individuals.
- See groups as not homogeneous.
- Listen without anger.
- Don't think of counter-arguments prematurely.
- Eat more bacon. It soothes.

Definitely. There are numerous ways I see similarities between Evangelical Christianity and Illiberal Liberalism. This thread has some shimmerings of it. Not a good example I'd offer in debate to demonstrate such a thing, but I see it skittering across the floor.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That's not really a role reversal. It's kind if what we see as a larger trend in human cultures and histories where majorities repress minorities. And often times race isn't involved in these sort of repressions, but could be like the English or Danes enslaving other Europeans or the Ottoman Empire enslaving other Middle Easterners and those around the Mediterranean Sea. The Spartans made it an annual sport to butcher slaves, and the ancient Hebrews recorded laws and policies to regulate their practice of slavery, and they themselves have been enslaved by the Babylonians and Egyptians.
Role reversal would be like Othello, where it is completely reversed to our norms and expectations. A role reversal here would be Anglophone stuff being targetted for the music being automatically rejected, told to act more like the new majority to succeed (leading the Johns and Pauls and Chrises to change their name to sound more whatever), and not having things of meaningful significance to "core WASP culture" not being acknowledged or honored in the mainstream culture, but are themselves expected to celebrate the holidays of the majority even if there is no real reason to (such as, if Fourth of July were struck from the calendars and in its place was Juneteenth).

I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact specific ethnicities are being targeted.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact specific ethnicities are being targeted.

Well, the case in Africa, it's not too much different from here and the Natives. It doesn't justify or excuse racism and other poor behaviors, but it was a minority of white people there who took over the majority of everything. Which itself isn't too different from what drove 20th century Communist Revolutions throughout Asia and South America.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well, the case in Africa, it's not too much different from here and the Natives. It doesn't justify or excuse racism and other poor behaviors, but it was a minority of white people there who took over the majority of everything. Which itself isn't too different from what drove 20th century Communist Revolutions throughout Asia and South America.

Actually I was referring to this....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually I was referring to this....

I know. As I said nothing justifies it, but at the same time we can trace back the events and catalysts that lead to that situation.