Signs of The End: A Baha'i View

[Lady B]

Dear LadyB,

Please also note the subject of the Thread, is the signs of the end from Baha'i Scriptures.
As to your questions, the Baha'i Scriptures are online. Please do you own research, and find out.
As regards to your comment, that they are clear and no need to interpret them, this is the opposite to what Baha'u'llah said. He said, the Only One who knows the officially infallible interpretations of His verses after Him, is Abdulbaha.
Although you are free to have your own interpretations as I am free. But that would be only to our own personal understanding.

Your kidding ! You mean your messenger gave you books of which noone can interpret correctly? Why on earth would He do that? and why can't you just confirm these are indeed writings in your books?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

How come that the bab was the Mahdi and muslims didn't accept him and how Bahaullah was the return of christ and both muslims and christians didn't accept him.

dear Fear God,

Your statements are incorrect.
ALL of the believers of the Bab were Muslims. 20,000 of them were martyred in the Path of God.

Also, many of the Baha'is have Chrsitian Background.

According to my belief the return of christ means the end of this world as he'll take all believers and the earth will be left for a while for disbelievers.

Dear FearGod,

I respect your own belief. But I only discuss from Quran and Bible, as well as correct Hadithes.

So in case that Jesus pbuh will be back in our recent times then the Bahais will refuse him while muslims and christians will accept him.

Well, How do you know He has not back yet?

Please note that there are minor signs which should be revealed before the times of Mahdi and Jesus pbuh and just before few years one of the minor signs have been fulfilled and that was the sanctions against Iraq and next will be Syria which is just happening now.

Please support your view from the verses of Quran.

Please watch the video which shows the timeline according to Mohamed pbuh prophecy for the end of times.

You are more than welcome to discuss this topic from Quran and Bible.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Your kidding ! You mean your messenger gave you books of which noone can interpret correctly? Why on earth would He do that? and why can't you just confirm these are indeed writings in your books?

Dear LadyB,

I am only discussing the "Signs" of the End.
For other Questions, you may make a separate thread and ask the questions. I'll be happy to discuss. Your questions has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Please note the rules of the Forum. Thank you.

 

[Lady B]

Dear LadyB,

I am only discussing the "Signs" of the End.
For other Questions, you may make a separate thread and ask the questions. I'll be happy to discuss. Your questions has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Please note the rules of the Forum. Thank you.

Ok as you like, no problem. I have nothing more to add here then,I will not get in a discussion of end times and the fulfillment when I don't even believe your fulfilling prophet was in any way Biblical. I am willing however to learn about what he claimed for himself, yet you will not even confirm this or deny it. Signs of the end are meaningless, when you have no beginning. I see no prophesy fulfilled from the Bible or the Koran except in the way Bahai's interpret certain scriptures that could have anyone's name inserted if taken so symbolically.:thud:

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Ok as you like, no problem. I have nothing more to add here then,I will not get in a discussion of end times and the fulfillment when I don't even believe your fulfilling prophet was in any way Biblical. I am willing however to learn about what he claimed for himself, yet you will not even confirm this or deny it. Signs of the end are meaningless, when you have no beginning. I see no prophesy fulfilled from the Bible or the Koran except in the way Bahai's interpret certain scriptures that could have anyone's name inserted if taken so symbolically.:thud:

Dear LadyB,

Offcourse you do not have to believe. Neither this thread is to convert anyone.
But, in my view your reasoning is the same as those who rejected Jesus when He appeared 2000 years ago. They also did not recognize Jesus, because they had their own expectations based on their own interepretations. They also said Jesus is saying things different than Torah.

Regarding the Claimes of Baha'u'llah, I had already placed many of them in this thread. You are more than welcome to discuss those claimes.
For the Book of Aqdas, you may find it here, and then if you would like to discuss them, please do so:

Baha'i Reference Library: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

Also, you had already placed some test for knowing True Prophets. You can discuss those. I prefer in a separate thread.
P.s. Please be patiant regarding learning about Baha'i faith. I have studied it for about 10 years now constantly, and still am learning

 

[InvestigateTruth]

really? I am confused, so who was Bahuallah then?

Dear LadyB,

This is a good question.

Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this Age. The One who Jesus Christ Prophecised.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Excuse me! Please. I think he thinks he is. I do not think he is. Seems to me that, oh I don't know, God and d*amn it goes together. What do you think?

Dear savagewind,

The Messengers of God sometimes talk with the voice of God.
Baha'u'llah is the Prophecies regarding the Spirit of Truth. When Jesus said:

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come" John 16:13

Now let's carefully ponder on this verse when it says: "he will speak only what he hears"

This means, Baha'u'llah hears what God says, then He says exactly what God says. For example consider the following verse revealed by Baha'u'llah:

"Say: Whether ye rejoice or whether ye burst for fury, the heavens are cleft asunder, and God hath come down, invested with radiant sovereignty. All created things are heard exclaiming: “The Kingdom is God’s, the Almighty, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.” "

This is what Baha'u'llah has heard from God, and says it exactly as God said it to Baha'u'llah.

There were people who thought Baha'u'llah claimed to be God. He responded to that:

"Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favours with which God hath, through His bounty, favoured Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. "
Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 219-232


Moreover, Baha'u'llah has revealed in the Book of certitude:

"Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God!” He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world. " - Baha'u'llah

 

[savagewind]

Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God!” He verily speaketh the truth

God can not sin and God can not lie. Man is not God. God is a spirit. Anyone at anytime can manifest the spirit of God, God willing.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

God can not sin and God can not lie. Man is not God. God is a spirit. Anyone at anytime can manifest the spirit of God, God willing.

I am not disagreeing with you. But the Manifestation of God has a two fold station. He appears with physical Body, but with Divine Nature.

There is the Glory of the Sun, Glory of the Moon, then stars in various degree, even as it was Written:

"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." 1 Corin. 15:41​

In this analogy, the Sun is the Manifestation of God who is a perfect Image of God. The Moon is like Minor Prophets, such as Aaron. The Stars are saints and chosen ones of God. Offcourse we all can become pure and be as stars, but we can never be the Sun. The Sun is a specific station of Manifestations of God who can reveal the Word of God directly. Everyone else gets their light and glory from the Manifestations of God. These Manifestations appear once in 'about' 1000 years.
So, let's say this prayer:​

O God, guide me, protect me, make of me a shining lamp and a brilliant star.
Thou art the Mighty and the Powerful.​

‘Abdu’l-Bahá​

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Some Other Prophecies Jesus has alluded regarding the Promised One which is Fulfilled by Baha'u'llah:

Thou didst ask as to chapter 14, verse 30 of the Gospel of John, where the Lord Christ saith, ‘Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the Prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.’ The Prince of this world is the Blessed Beauty (Baha'u'llah); and ‘hath nothing in Me’ signifieth: after Me all will draw grace from Me, but He is independent of Me, and will draw no grace from Me. That is, He is rich beyond any grace of Mine.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 169-172

"Bahá’u’lláh has revealed: “Lend an ear unto the song of David. He saith: ‘Who will bring me into the Strong City?’ The Strong City is ‘Akká, which hath been named the Most Great Prison, and which possesseth a fortress and mighty ramparts. "

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 74-84

“The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the splendor of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the splendor of our God.” Isaiah 35:1-2

"These passages stand in need of no commentary. They are shining and manifest as the sun, and glowing and luminous as light itself. Every fair-minded person is led, by the fragrance of these words, unto the garden of understanding, and attaineth unto that from which most men are veiled and debarred. Say: Fear God, O people, and follow not the doubts of such as shout aloud, who have broken the Covenant of God and His Testament, and denied His mercy that hath preceded all that are in the heavens and all that are on earth."

The Bahá'í World Centre on Mount Carmel




"It is recorded in the Torah: And I will give you the valley of Achor for a door of hope. This valley of Achor is the city of ‘Akká, and whoso hath interpreted this otherwise is of those who know not."
Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 160-162

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The following hath been recorded Traditions from Muhammad concerning the merits of ‘Akká, and of the sea, and of
Aynu’l-Baqar (The Spring of the Cow) which is in ‘Akká:

1. ‘Abdu’l-‘Azíz, son of Abdu’-Salam, hath related unto us that the Prophet—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon him—hath said: “‘Akká is a city in Syria to which God hath shown His special mercy.”

2. Ibn-i-Mas’ud—may God be pleased with him—hath stated: “The Prophet—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him—hath said: ‘Of all shores the best is the shore of Askelon, and ‘Akká is, verily, better than Askelon, and the merit of ‘Akká above that of Askelon and all other shores is as the merit of Mu˙ammad above that of all other Prophets. I bring you tidings of a city betwixt two mountains in Syria, in the middle of a meadow, which is called ‘Akká. Verily, he that entereth therein, longing for it and eager to visit it, God will forgive his sins, both of the past and of the future. And he that departeth from it, other than as a pilgrim, God will not bless his departure. In it is a spring called the Spring of the Cow. Whoso drinketh a draught therefrom, God will fill his heart with light, and will protect him from the most great terror on the Day of Resurrection.’”

3. Anas, son of Malik—may God be pleased with him—hath said: “The Apostle of God— may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him—hath said: ‘By the shore of the sea is a city, suspended beneath the Throne, and named ‘Akká. He that dwelleth therein, firm and expecting a reward from God—exalted be He—God will write down for him, until the Day of Resurrection, the recompense of such as have been patient, and have stood up, and knelt down, and prostrated themselves, before Him.’”

4. And He—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him—hath said: “I announce unto you a city, on the shores of the sea, white, whose whiteness is pleasing unto God—exalted be He! It is called ‘Akká. He that hath been bitten by one of its fleas is better, in the estimation of God, than he who hath received a grievous blow in the path of God. And he that raiseth therein the call to prayer, his voice will be lifted up unto Paradise. And he that remaineth therein for seven days in the face of the enemy, God will gather him with Khi∂r—peace be upon Him—and God will protect him from the most great terror on the Day of Resurrection.”

5. And He—may the blessings of God—exalted be He—and His salutations be upon Him—hath said: “There are kings and princes in Paradise. The poor of ‘Akká are the kings of Paradise and the princes thereof. A month in ‘Akká is better than a thousand years elsewhere.”

6. The Apostle of God—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him— is reported to have said: “Blessed the man that hath visited ‘Akká, and blessed he that hath visited the visitor of ‘Akká. Blessed the one that hath drunk from the Spring of the Cow and washed in its waters, for the black-eyed damsels quaff the camphor in Paradise, which hath come from the Spring of the Cow, and from the Spring of Salvan (Siloam), and the Well of Zamzam. Well is it with him that hath drunk from these springs, and washed in their waters, for God hath forbidden the fire of hell to touch him and his body on the Day of Resurrection.”

7. The Prophet—may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him—is stated to have said: “In ‘Akká are works of supererogation and acts which are beneficial, which God vouchsafed specially unto whomsoever He pleaseth. And he that saith in ‘Akká: ‘Glorified be God, and praise be unto God, and there is none other God but God, and most great is God, and there is no power nor strength except in God, the Exalted, the Mighty,’ God will write down for him a thousand good deeds, and blot out from him a thousand evil deeds, and will uplift him a thousand grades in Paradise, and will forgive him his transgressions. And whoso saith in ‘Akká: ‘I beg forgiveness of God,’ God will forgive all his trespasses. And he that remembereth God in ‘Akká at morn and at eventide, in the night-season and at dawn, is better in the sight of God than he who beareth swords, spears and arms in the path of God— exalted be He!”

There is More.

References:

Akka Traditions (<i>hadith) in the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf

Prison City of Akka, Where Baha'u'llah was exciled

 

[BruceDLimber]

Bahaullah mentions in Aqdas, page 43, "There is no God but I the Honoured , the Wise".

3. He again writes in Aqdas, page 144 "Accept whatever is commanded by Baha (himself) the Lord of Eternity"....

Please note that Baha'u'llah also states:

&#8220;When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things &#8216;verily I am God!&#8217;; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!&#8221;
&#8212;Baha'u'llah, p. 2

And if I'm not mistaken, the letter "from Allah to Allah" was between Baha'u'llah and the Bab, not involving 'Abdu'l-Baha.

As Art mentioned, we see Baha'u'llah as the Return of the Christ Spirit with the new name that both the Jewish and Christian scriptures prophesied.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Lady B]

Please note that Baha'u'llah also states:

“When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”
—Baha'u'llah, p. 2

And if I'm not mistaken, the letter "from Allah to Allah" was between Baha'u'llah and the Bab, not involving 'Abdu'l-Baha.

As Art mentioned, we see Baha'u'llah as the Return of the Christ Spirit with the new name that both the Jewish and Christian scriptures prophesied.

Peace,

Bruce

I see no prophesy for Bahuhala at all. Glory of God is quite vague to be used as any proof at all, not to mention He was not born with this name, He took it for himself. not very prophetic.

Bahaullah could not have written this letter to the Bab, for the Bab had been dead at this time. It was certainly written to Abdul Baha according to Bahai writings

peace.
In Maftoon, page 15, Bahaullah writes to his son Abdul Baha, "This s a letter from Allah, the Honoured and the Wise (Bahaullah) to Allah the Gracious, the Aware (Abdul Baha)." This is interesting - one God greets another one!

 

[FearGod]

In Maftoon, page 15, Bahaullah writes to his son Abdul Baha, "This s a letter from Allah, the Honoured and the Wise (Bahaullah) to Allah the Gracious, the Aware (Abdul Baha)." This is interesting - one God greets another one!

Very good point.

But as usual,i think you'll get a metaphoric explanation for it,just wait and see.

 

[Lady B]

Very good point.

But as usual,i think you'll get a metaphoric explanation for it,just wait and see.

looking forward to it

 

[BruceDLimber]

According to my belief the return of christ means the end of this world as he'll take all believers and the earth will be left for a while for disbelievers.

In fact, the "end of the world" prophecy is a mistranslation!

The word in the original Greek is "eras," which means "world" or "age."

And IOV the translators of the KJV Bible picked the wrong meaning: it in fact refers to the end of the Age, which already came and went around a century and a half ago!


(Please note, Lady B, that we find the Baha'i scriptures quite easy to understand without significant further interpretation--in vivid contrast to earlier scriptures. And in fact, one of these volumes, The Book of Certitude <aka Kitab-i-Iqan>, is in our understanding the unsealing and explanation of the earlier prophecies in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.)

... when you have no beginning.

We see the "beginning point" for these prophecies as the third decree (Artaxerxes') to rebuild the temple, in roughly 657 BCE.


You may well be correct about the letter you mentioned; but for the record, the Bab and Baha'u'llah were indeed alive at the same time, and corresponded.

It should also be noted, though, that a Divine Messenger has a dual status (as explained elsewhere). And Baha'u'llah did indeed state:

&#8220;When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things &#8216;verily I am God!&#8217;; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!&#8221;

If you'd like to see details on the many fulfilled prophecies, please check the Web site already mentioned here: it gives full details of these.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[savagewind]

I think the end of an age came when children were killed in gas chambers. That is maybe why 'Jesus' 'Christ' said "My God, My God why have you forsaken me". He is not the children that were killed. He was the savior of the children that were killed. But they were not.

 

[Lady B]

In all due respect: I find my scriptures easy to interpret also, And certainly do not need your scriptures to translate mine. Nor Did God give us (Christians and Muslims and Buddhists ect...) scriptures that could only be interpreted by your prophet less then 200 years ago. I find it silly to suggest that all bible believers misunderstand or fail to interpret God's word for us and we must hold on to the Books for many centuries till God sends us someone to unseal them. You really believe that fine, But do not expect us to do so as well.
peace.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

In all due respect: I find my scriptures easy to interpret also, And certainly do not need your scriptures to translate mine. Nor Did God give us (Christians and Muslims and Buddhists ect...) scriptures that could only be interpreted by your prophet less then 200 years ago. I find it silly to suggest that all bible believers misunderstand or fail to interpret God's word for us and we must hold on to the Books for many centuries till God sends us someone to unseal them. You really believe that fine, But do not expect us to do so as well.
peace.

Dear LadyB, Please support your claim from Bible.
Bible says it is sealed till the end of time or Age. ( I have calculated the date from bible, corresponds to yead 1844).


"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:" 1. Corin. 2:7

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Corin. 14:2​

It is clear when a Book is inspired by God, its language is spiritual not literal. Please Ponder that in your hearth.​

[Prophets say]: &#8220;We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain.&#8221; Baha'u'llah​

If the Bible is easy, then how is it that the Christians always have to argue about the meaning of its verses? and Most often they don't get anywhere. That is almost about every single verses of Bible. Just have a look at this forum.​

Also, let's remember, if we want to know the truth, we need to become free from Bias. Free from hate and love and emotions. ​

 

[Lady B]

I had replied to you in depth and Then saw your heated response to me in another thread, so I deleted my post so not to add fuel to the fire I see happening. In no way do I intend to cause anger or be angered, yet it happens as Things of God are indeed important to both of us.I would like to leave this thread now and not debate further in this topic. I will agree to disagree, walk away and would appreciate If you not bait me further to respond here. Thank you and may we part in peace, hugz