I'm way too busy with my studies of panpsychism at the moment. Maybe you can just touch on one or two main points or themes. Please do not quote scripture. I want to hear it from your own voice.
One of the themes is that there are levels or spheres that we go to in the afterlife and that we gravitate towards our moral center of gravity. Another theme is that there is such a thing as hell but it is not a place, it is a thought region.
“I have looked into hell! I may have to return to that region. I shall be given my choice. Grant that I may be strong enough to offer myself freely. Hell is a thought region. Evil dwells there and works out its purposes.
The forces used to hold mankind down in the darkness of ignorance are generated in hell! It is not a place; it is a condition. The human race has created the condition. It has taken millions of years to reach its present state. I dare not tell you what I saw there.... At first I refused to go.... There was no life, no light there. One felt stagnation everywhere. The angel said that was the most insidious kind of hell, stagnation, because no one recognised it as such. Contrary to belief, hell itself, or rather that part of it visited by my brother and the angel, is brilliantly lighted. The light is coarse, artificial. It keeps out the light of God. In this awful glare the angel's light nearly lost its radiance.”
Private Dowding, pp. 32-33
Here’s a book you might find interesting:
https://www.amazon.com/King-Warrior-Magician-Lover-Rediscovering-ebook/dp/B00EXOFDXI/
You would be surprised by how far modern human psychology has progressed in the last 50 years! There's a really interesting archetype they talk about called the Weakling King.
Thanks, I am interested in psychology.
How do you know you are not deluding yourself when you think you are a separate consciousness from God. We could all be like neurons within the mind of God.
Because I believe what Baha’ul’lah wrote about the soul retaining its individuality, and that has been confirmed by all afterlife books I have read. I also believe what Baha’u’llah wrote about God being separate from His creation and as such we can never “merge” with God.
I'm pretty sure Hell only exists on Earth. I live in New Jersey.
I am pretty sure hell exists in the afterlife too, from all accounts I have read including scriptures I have read. Hell is a state of the soul that is far from God. God does not draw someone near if he chooses to be far because that violates free will.
What is hellish about New Jersey? I know a guy on another forum who just loves NJ, but he lives far from the city.
You really love your authoritarianism. I very much doubt our omnipotent God of unconditional love has any needs or desires for our "allegiance ". Any god requiring allegiance is a lesser god who has needs. A perfect God needs nothing from us.
As I have said 100 times over, God has no needs. Our allegiance to God is for OUR benefit, not for God’s benefit – God needs nothing from us.
No, it's very different. I am not telling you what to think. I am not telling I know the mind of God. What I am telling you is I am CHOOSING to have faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love who allows everyone through the gates of Heaven to experience eternal bliss regardless of our Earthly sins or how we practiced or not practiced our religion. Unconditional means no conditions. I may be wrong. But therefore my faith is stronger than yours. I am trusting my all-loving God to be all-loving.
Why do you choose to believe in such a God you have no evidence for? I think it is because you
want God to be that way, and that is why I said “whatever floats your boat.”
Your faith is not stronger than mine just because you are trusting an all-loving God to be all-loving. I am trusting in God to be Loving and Just.
Whereas you are telling me your Messengers actually speak for God through revelation which is the same thing as saying they are speaking for God directly. You are telling me your Messengers are telling you how to believe, how to achieve salvation, and what will happen to you after you die. As if they know from direct experience!
Since Baha’u’llah received a direct revelation for God He knew what the afterlife would be like without having to actually experience it. Baha’u’llah did not reveal much of that to us because He knew we would not be able to understand it and because if He told us more we would not want to remain in this life for one more minute and the fabric of society would be destroyed.
I'm sure your Messengers have very well thought out and wise opinions on matters of spirituality. I never said they did not. What I did say is you are assuming your messengers are speaking for God directly or indirectly in some way. I do not accept your opinion on what someone else is saying about God. In my opinion, anyone who claims they or someone else is speaking for God, either directly or indirectly through revelation, is delusional.
You are free to believe that if you want to. You have plenty of company.
You might find this surprising but there is some pretty good evidence the Gospels were written by the Romans. Google, "Caesar’s Messiah Joseph Atwill youtube". Atwill makes a very convincing argument the gospels were fabricated by the Romans as war-time occupational propaganda.
I do not believe that, but it is a great way to try to discredit the Bible.
If you do not see the problem with scripture stating "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God" then I just give up. If you can't see that there is something seriously wrong with
Romans 13:1 then I am speechless!
I am not a Christian so I do not live by the NT. There are a lot of problems with the gospel according to Paul. It is not the gospel of Jesus.
In my opinion, religion should have nothing to do with government. And further, authoritarianism is a horrible basis for religion. And even further, you would think an omnipotent God would be slightly more egalitarian with His divine form of government than what is defined by
Romans 13:1!
I agree. Baha’is have nothing to do with government. We are non-political.
You say arrogant and I say self-esteem. I am confident in my own beliefs. My faith in an all-loving God is unshakable. I do not share your fears with regards to obedience to authority. Life is already suffering. No matter what happens after I die, I will continue to have faith in my all-loving God.
I say self-confidence but whenever anyone is that confident it does not leave any room for error. Sure, I am also confident of my beliefs, but that confidence does not come from within me. It comes from faith in Baha’u’llah. By contrast, your faith is in yourself.
There is nothing wrong with having faith in an all-loving God but an all-loving God can also be just.
I say you have fears. What happens to you if you do not believe the way the Messengers are telling you how to think?
The Messengers did not tell me how to think, I choose to believe what Baha’u’llah revealed. If not I would lose my faith. Likewise, if you chose to not listen to yourself you would lose your faith in the God you imagine exists.
I cannot disagree more strongly. The people around us matter the most! Our omnipotent God needs nothing from us. God will be the same God no matter what happens between human beings. But when you cause someone else to suffer as a result of your actions you will experience the results of your bad behavior sooner rather than later.
I agree with you up to this point.
I don't understand why you think it is not important to get forgiveness from people we have sinned against. I suffer enough in my life. The last thing I want to do is crap all over someone and then deal with MORE suffering on the kick-back from the go-around. What goes around comes around!
I did not say it is not important, I said it is not always possible and nobody owes us forgiveness that would be a gift. Try this: If you don’t want to suffer then don’t sin against other people.
I never said in definitive terms my God exists. What I said was "I choose to have faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love". Then I went on to describe what an "omnipotent God of unconditional love" would be like. And then I said based on your ideas of "unjust" would imply you are worshiping a lesser god. Look, it's very simple. My God is stronger because my God doesn't need any Messengers. My God is all-loving. That's pretty much it. With my God, there are no scriptures to quote as if you are speaking for God. All you have to do is go into the light.
But your God is not real, so what’s the point? Do you want to believe in a fantasy just because it feels good? You want to make God simple, but it is not simple. God is much more than you believe. God is love but God is
much more than love.
Sorry, I have no interest in another god of judgment. I've studied several. I am very busy with my studies in panpsychism.
Those books are not about a God of judgment, quite the contrary:
“I want to say a few words about love--very few, because I know so little. Also because love is spoken about too much already, whereas it should be lived. If you would dwell in peace, learn to love deeply. Never cease from loving. Jesus said a good deal about love, if I remember rightly. Look up what He said and
live it.
Love God by pouring yourself away. Love your fellows by giving them all you possess of light and truth.
Love LOVE for her own blessed sake. Such love will bring you nearer heaven.
I have spoken about illusion several times. I return to it once more. I begin to see that phenomenal existence, whether on earth or here, is so impermanent as to be unreal. This is a hard saying. I do not yet understand it.
Live above those conditions which, after much meditation, appear to you to be illusory. That is the best advice I can give.”
Private Dowding, pp. 37-38