dfnj
Well-Known Member
That is a straw man. I never said I hated Hitler.
We are not going to have a conversation if you ignore half of what I said. I was never claiming you hate Hitler. I was talking about your idea of it would be unjust to allow Hitler to enter the gates of Heaven to experience eternal bliss. I said why do you care, what difference does it make. You said because I want justice. And I said if you want justice you will have to find it in a court of secular law. Again, who cares if God loves Hitler anyway. It's not like how God treats Hitler is going to prevent you from entering the gates of Heaven. And I said, what difference does it. And you then said because it's "unjust".
Well, there you have it. You want justice. You want to see people burn in Hell for all eternity. Or go to one of your Messenger's levels were souls of certain levels go based on how they are judged.
As I said, I don't think God cares about the affairs of man. I said, God loves every facet of His creation equality no matter what.
Your god likes to dole out justice. My God is too busy just loving souls.
I do not believe there was ever an Adam and Eve. That was an allegorical story. But let’s say God knew and God allowed them to eat the apple. So what? It just shows that they had free will and they made a mistake.
God could have created us two ways:
1. Perfect with no needs or desires essentially having omnipotent powers
2. Imperfect, full of needs, full of desires, and as a result, life is full of suffering and evil.
I think the biting of the apple caused the realization by Adam he was separate from God and full of imperfections. There two responses to the discovering we are separate from God and full of imperfections:
1. We hate God because life is full of suffering, people are evil, and life is unjust
2. We accept our imperfections in ourselves and in others, and love God despite the evil and suffering in the World
I choose the second option. You seem to be choosing the first option.
As fallible humans we can never judge and say who is saved or not.
You do it all the time. Did you not just say "Have you watch the news". You are constantly judging people as superior and inferior based on their beliefs. You have strong opinions on who is going to be saved and who is not. I just gave the opinion an omnipotent God would not care about sin because an omnipotent God would have no reason to care.
We do not have all the facts but God has all the facts and that is why God can judge.
I think labeling someone as "evil" is purely a subjective opinion and has nothing to do with facts. What is evil and what is not evil is a relationship between two people. So if what is evil is so subjective, which person does God use as His definition of what is evil?
Holy moly! God does not make choices over who is saved based on petty human desires of revenge and hate. God makes His choices based upon what He knows about people, which is everything.
How do you know God makes a choice at all? What I mean by petty human desires of revenge and hate is people want God to make a choice because of their own reasons. My argument has been why would God care or have a need to make a choice at all? When we die our soul returns back to God from whence we came. We die, we go into the light, we experience God, done. But it's not a bad thing. Looking into the face of God and experiencing God's infinite beauty is the greatest possible experience we can have. All our needs and desires will be fulfilled. We will become complete, whole, and perfect just like God in this moment. There is nothing left to do than to just be with God.
Yes, I agree our omnipotent God knows every choice we will ever make. However, I do not believe our existence has no purpose. I have argued we live in a cyclical Universe. In one cycle of the Universe we make once set of choices. In another cycle of the Universe we make another set of choices. Over some larger view of time containing the multiverse God gets to experience every possible choice we could ever possibly make in our all our lives. In one cycle of the Universe we are a serial killer. In another cycle of the Universe we are the greatest saint to ever live. But the sum of who we are across every possible cycle of the Universe is the same for every person. This is what mean by we exist in this Universe as an integral part of God realizing His omnipotence. God knows the result of every possible choice we could make at any point in our lives because over the entire multiverse God has seen every possible choice any of us can ever possibly make played out to its completion.
Now you may think this is all fantasy delusion. But I would like to point out what do think BEING omnipotent means? What else could being omnipotent mean other than seeing or experiencing the result of every possible possibility realized in some version of reality. God is the alpha and omega of experience.
Now explain me why you think your lesser god of judgment will judge us one way or the other based on one cycle of the Universe? My God is the God of the Multiverse of time and not just the god of this one universe.
Maybe this idea of a cyclical Universe is just too big for your mind to grasp. Do you do realize our Big Bang was the result of a star collapsing to black hole in previously existing space-time dimension? Here’s an interesting article explaining how:
https://phys.org/news/2015-10-white-holes.html
For me this is one of the main problems of putting all your faith in scripture coming from goat herders 2000 years ago. This is year 2020. Not many of us are still herding goats! Our understanding of the Universe is much bigger than 2000 years ago.
I never said that God allows people to suffer for all eternity. That is a Christian belief, but even if Christians believe that it does not mean that they are petty, looking for revenge, and are full of hate. They simply believe that is justice. Since we have free will we make our own choices, so why shouldn’t we pay a certain price for the choices we make? Why should we get off scot-free if we hurt or murder other people? That is not in accordance with justice.
I do not understand your obsession with justice. If you want justice the only place to get it is from a secular court of law. As I've said people do pay a steep price for their acts of evil. As I've said I believe in the golden rule of karma. If you cause suffering in others you will live a life of suffering here and now in equal proportion. The way the human mind works is when we act badly, we create a cycle of self-loathing. This self-loathing will cause us to create conditions in our lives that will cause us to suffer in equal proportion. We will then commit more acts of evil in response to our own self-inflicted suffering. There's not much God has to do to ensure justice. We do it to ourselves!
I will prove to you this is true. I keep answering your posts thinking this time she will be satisfied and go away. And boom, I continue to suffer!
God is not petty, looking for revenge or full of hate, but God is just and merciful so He will deal with people accordingly.
God is perfect, whole, and complete without any needs or desires. Why would God have any reason to "deal with people" whatever this means? You are implying God has needs. This means you think God is NOT perfect, whole, and complete. This is what I mean when I say you worship a lesser god. You seem to think God has some desire for justice. I've asked you five times why you think God has any needs at all but you just ignore the question. Of course, I'm sure the Holy Messengers have told you God has needs.
I cannot say what will happen to evil people but neither can you. According to my beliefs, in the spiritual world they will not be where they can hurt good people, but there will still be a change for them to progress. The thing you might not understand is that some people choose evil and thus send themselves to hell, so they would not want to be in the Light. Why would a loving God force them to be in the Light?
God doesn’t force anyone into the light. There is just no other place to go but into the light.
There is no hell. When we die, we go into the light and experience God’s infinite beauty. This is our last and final experience.
The statement “they will not be where they can hurt good people” is like warm apple pie. It warms my heart. Heck, I just want to give all my money to your church!