Sikhism: Ask your questions

[Treks]

I'll start a new thread tonight when I'm home from work, for those who'd like to talk about it.

 

[De Li]

Dear all,
this is my first post here, so please go easy on me ;-)
I'm a panentheist and at the very early stage of considering a possible future conversion to Sikhism. Since I am a very rational person, I prefer to first gather a solid basic understanding of the faith before getting in touch with a Gurdwara. What I have learnt so far feels just like what I have been searching for however there is one thing I need clarity on before progressing. This point concerns Karma / (undeserved?) suffering / theodicy …
I know this subject has been touched upon on a previous page but I would like be really clear on this. My question -I'll put it very simple- is: do Sikhs believe that any and all suffering experienced by any living being is a direct result i.e. punishment for bad deeds committed in a previous life? Because this is something I will never ever believe! During my study of Hinduism I have read “explanations” saying that if a child is abused, then this is because this child was “bad” in a previous life, God is punishing this child via Karma, and the perpetrator is merely God's tool, executing God's punishment. This to me is not the description of 'God who is without hate'! Also, when has it ever worked to use cruelty and pain as an educational means to turn someone into a better person?! On the contrary many abusers have been abused themselves!
Personally I do believe in Karma but I believe through Karma we are born into particular life circumstances, that allow / force us to deal with personal challenges which we failed to achieve in previous lives. I also believe that one can use the human part of the soul, and only the animal part of the soul is reborn. (That is not saying that animals are less worth, as I judge all life to be equally valuable, just different.)
What I do not believe is that each exact occurrence in the individual life is predetermined; and I do not believe that God uses humans as tools to inflict suffering on other living beings as a means of educational correction!
Furthermore it feels that a faith that is so concerned with standing up against oppression and cruelty (which is one of the main attractions to me), would be very much at odds with the view of God as using cruelty as punitive correction method.
I'd be very grateful for answers.
Cheers,
De Li

 

[chinu]

"Farida lore dakh bijoreya, kikkar bije jatt,
Hande unn katyyie daa paida lore patt " - Salok baba farid in GGS

English:
"Need a bijoriyan dry fruit, but sow a thorny thorns,
Give's wool to spin, but need a silky silk " - Says farid

Imo, suffering experienced by any living being is a treatment, rather than punishment for bad deeds committed in a previous life.

 

[GURSIKH]

Dear all,
this is my first post here, so please go easy on me ;-)
I'm a panentheist and at the very early stage of considering a possible future conversion to Sikhism. Since I am a very rational person, I prefer to first gather a solid basic understanding of the faith before getting in touch with a Gurdwara. What I have learnt so far feels just like what I have been searching for however there is one thing I need clarity on before progressing.

Welcome De Li on Rf ,
Panentheism perfectly describes Sikhi . let me answer your question related to Karma ..

 

[GURSIKH]

De li ji ,

sole authority in Sikhi is Sri Guru Granth Sahib .

do Sikhs believe that any and all suffering experienced by any living being is a direct result i.e. punishment for bad deeds committed in a previous life?Because this is something I will never ever believe! During my study of Hinduism I have read “explanations” saying that if a child is abused, then this is because this child was “bad” in a previous life, God is punishing this child via Karma, and the perpetrator is merely God's tool, executing God's punishment. This to me is not the description of 'God who is without hate'!

its very unSikh , anti-Gurmat and rejected In Guru Granth sahib . "Punishing GOD for Karma " :no: as you said very first line of SGGS describe Waheguru as "Nirvair -without hate "




In Sikhi "Karma" simply means our "action " , our Success or failure depends on our actions . as a student bunking classes , non sincere in studies is bound to fail and as sincere ,regular is bound to succeed . or consumption of Sugar is harmful for diabetic and proper medication is helpful for him/her .

lets consider the Shabad fro SGGS Chinu ji shared above

[SIZE=+1]ਫਰੀਦਾ ਲੋੜੈ ਦਾਖ ਬਿਜਉਰੀਆਂ ਕਿਕਰਿ ਬੀਜੈ ਜਟੁ ॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]फरीदा लोड़ै दाख बिजउरीआं किकरि बीजै जटु ॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Farīḏā loṛai ḏākẖ bij▫urī▫āʼn kikar bījai jat.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Fareed, the farmer plants acacia trees, and wishes for grapes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]ਹੰਢੈ ਉਂਨ ਕਤਾਇਦਾ ਪੈਧਾ ਲੋੜੈ ਪਟੁ ॥੨੩॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]हंढै उंन कताइदा पैधा लोड़ै पटु ॥२३॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Handẖai unn kaṯā▫iḏā paiḏẖā loṛai pat. ||23||[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]He is spinning wool, but he wishes to wear silk. ||23||

[/SIZE]




its simple and rational to eat grapes ,one needs to plant grapes not thorns or in other words it means for spiritual gain/understanding one needs to join Sat sangat and not Pubs .

 

[De Li]

GURSIKH ji -- thank you so much!
I have been anxious to hear what you have told me! - thank you for relieving me of this anxiety
I have a feeling that having been a seeker all my life -and having explored, considered, or even tried out several religious traditions- I may find my home in Sikhism
I will be back with more questions if I may

 

[De Li]

Imo, suffering experienced by any living being is a treatment, rather than punishment for bad deeds committed in a previous life. [/QUOTE]

Hi Chinu, thank you for your reply. I get the quote (which is great btw); but could you please explain / elaborate what you mean by the sentence quoted above? I'm asking because English is my second language, (I'm native German), and sometimes need further explanation to understand the meaning of what somebody is saying [in English].
Thank you.

 

[Breathe]

do Sikhs believe that any and all suffering experienced by any living being is a direct result i.e. punishment for bad deeds committed in a previous life? Because this is something I will never ever believe!

It varies from Sikh to Sikh, but from my experience, it's almost always a 'no'; it's frequently seen as either a totally natural thing (no past-life results) or an automatic thing, like putting your hand in fire will burn you, it's not the fire punishing you.

 

[De Li]

Thank you again for the replies
This is the original quote in question from the website realsikhism.com
quote:
"If God creates new souls, then why are children born with disabilities? Souls are born with disabilities because of the bad deeds they committed in their previous life. It is up to God if he sends the soul to hell to make it realize the consequences of its actions or be born and make it realize in its next life."
quote end.

How would a disabled child realize that they did something bad in a previous life because of their present life disability?
I'm sorry but that's at the very least illogical thinking. And it's also a line of thinking that does not necessarily promote kindness. If I had a disabled child I would not like to hear that this is because this person was bad / wicked in a previous life and this is to make them "realize"

 

[ratikala]

Thank you again for the replies
This is the original quote in question from the website realsikhism.com
quote:
"If God creates new souls, then why are children born with disabilities? Souls are born with disabilities because of the bad deeds they committed in their previous life. It is up to God if he sends the soul to hell to make it realize the consequences of its actions or be born and make it realize in its next life."
quote end.

How would a disabled child realize that they did something bad in a previous life because of their present life disability?
I'm sorry but that's at the very least illogical thinking. And it's also a line of thinking that does not necessarily promote kindness. If I had a disabled child I would not like to hear that this is because this person was bad / wicked in a previous life and this is to make them "realize"

I understand your dilema and yes it seems unfair but please may I give you a different perspective to veiw it from . a dissabled child is only dissabled from our perspective , we are sad because they will not accheive many things that we think are important , these are worldly things and are as temporary as life is transient , we have a freind whos child was born with disabilities , but that child was born into a hindu devotional family who brought that child regularly to the temple , as the child grew it showed the wonderfull qualities of a true devotee and was blessed with the most beautifull voice and a love of bhajan . I used to sit listening to that child singing in the temple and consider which were the most important to be born with the aptitude and inteligence of a true devotee or to be born with a perfect body ? the lesson was mine not the childs , how attatched are we to what we consider to be normality ? ofcourse we want no child to suffer but we do need to look at things differently .


please also read my answer in 'Dharmic DIR' re same topic I have expanded a little more on karma .

 

[Treks]

It's only a short hop now from here to caste.

 

[Poeticus]

It's only a short hop now from here to caste.

Namaste,

Hey now, caste system isn't solely found in Hinduism.

Sorry, but I had to bring that up hehe.

M.V.

ps - I am waiting for someone to remind everyone that this is the SikhDIR...

 

[Treks]

Caste may be found in other religions and cultures but it certainly shouldn't be found in Sikhi. If others want to go with caste that's fine. But yes, it is the Sikh DIR, and that's why the differences need to be made clear.

 

[GURSIKH]

Thank you again for the replies
This is the original quote in question from the website realsikhism.com
quote:
"If God creates new souls, then why are children born with disabilities? Souls are born with disabilities because of the bad deeds they committed in their previous life. It is up to God if he sends the soul to hell to make it realize the consequences of its actions or be born and make it realize in its next life."
quote end.

hi De Li

do the website supported above quote by any shabad of Guru Granth Sahib or its their speculation ?

m unable to understand how they can put limit to GOD s creative potential regarding creation of new souls , when Gurbani says otherwise

Kuḏraṯ kavaṇ kahā vīcẖār.
How can I describe Your Creative Power?
vāri▫ā na jāvā ek vār.
I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.
Jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvai sā▫ī bẖalī kār.
Whatever pleases You is the only good done,
Ŧū saḏā salāmaṯ nirankār. ||19||
You, Eternal and Formless One. ||19||




its really sad to know such superstitions are being associated with Sikhi , whose rejection was prime cause which gave birth to Sikhi .








waheguru ji ki fateh

 

[GURSIKH]

Namaste,

Hey now, caste system isn't solely found in Hinduism.

Sorry, but I had to bring that up hehe.

M.V.

ps - I am waiting for someone to remind everyone that this is the SikhDIR...

Hello MV

hw caste is present in Sikhi ? bring something from Sikh Philosophy ,Sikhi Scriptures and kindly refrain from showing hw few Sikhs practice it as i know many Hindus who eat COWS/BEEF or Muslims who drinks.


namaste

 

[Huey09]

How does one pray in Sikhism and what books are a good way to begin learning more?

 

[Breathe]

How does one pray in Sikhism and what books are a good way to begin learning more?

Meditation, emptying the self of all distractions (this is just one reason why the Amrit Vela, the hours before dawn, are frequently chosen for one to commune with God), and repetition of God's Name.

 

[Huey09]

@Odion- What is the meaning of life on earth and what is the purpose of Sikhism?

 

[Breathe]

@Odion- What is the meaning of life on earth and what is the purpose of Sikhism?

Meaning of life: know God.

Purpose of Sikhism: Make the world a better place through the encouragement of rationality, modesty, and egalitarianism through the rejection of concepts such as caste, creed, colour, and of gender inequality.

 

[Huey09]

Meaning of life: know God.

Purpose of Sikhism: Make the world a better place through the encouragement of rationality, modesty, and egalitarianism through the rejection of concepts such as caste, creed, colour, and of gender inequality.

are there any texts I can read to explain Sihkism more thoroughly?