dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Why are you asking about my personal life as a response to my question? Does recovery have multiple parts or not or maybe you don't know?
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Simple Not Easy
- Thread starter dybmh
- Start date
Why are you asking about my personal life as a response to my question? Does recovery have multiple parts or not or maybe you don't know?
You seem to want to argue that recovery is complicated, therefore, I asked so we can determine if you have enough experience with addiction to speak intelligently about it.
Recovery is about not relapsing. Not complicated.
But as I said, remaining sober isn't easy.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
No. But I'm familiar with the condition.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I did not make assertions about recovery except that if it has multiple parts it sounds complicated.
What I want is to see how far you will avoid acknowledging a correction is warranted in what you posted.
If your metric for speaking intelligently about addiction and recovery is being an addict or a recovering addict, then are you an addict or recovering addict?
You added it to this thread as simple. When questioned you said it was quite simple.
So, are you?
So it's not okay for me to ask you about your experience with addiction, but it's okay for you to ask me about mine. Got it.
Yes. I come from a long line of addicts and I have also worked with many. So don't presume to take me to school on something I've lived with my entire life and suggest my post needs corrected.
Thank you.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
If so you should know the very important difference between abstention and recovery.
Abstention for an addict is simple but not easy.
I do. And I stand by my statement that recovery is simple, but not easy.
Abstention is required to change patterns in the brain. As far as the complexity of the recovery, it's as simple as not relapsing by means of counseling, practice, and in some cases, medication.
The process of recovery is difficult. It's not complex.
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dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
If I make assertions about any subject it's Ok to ask how I know. Since you made an assertion about not only addiction and recovery, but also about the metric which permits speaking intelligently about it, yes, it's ok to ask you to disclose your own qualifications using your own standards.
It's very simple. Do you hold yourself to same standards you expect from others?
Since I didn't make assertions about it, asking for my qualifications is irrelevant.
Why can't I suggest your post needs corrected? Are you beyond error? Or am I below you?
Ah...but you did and you are. You, by your own admission, are making the assertion that my statement that addiction recovery is simple but not easy is incorrect.
And you still have yet to speak to your qualification in making this assertion.
Because, as I've said above, you have not yet shown me that you are qualified to correct me.
Absolutely not. I've made many errors in my life. In fact, I've become exceedingly efficient at it.
I don't rank myself among others, as I've said previously on this forum. So the only way we can answer this is if you feel somehow that you are. I hope not.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
So, you're not an addict nor in recovery, but those were your conditions for speaking intelligently about addiction and recovery? How do you know if recovery is simple? Maybe someone you know actually said this to you in those exact words? That would be something.
You said recovery is as simple as not relapsing then listed 3 things. What is involved in the counseling? Do you know? Is it the same for everyone? Practice? What is being practiced? Do you know? Is it the same for everyone?
Yes medication is simple, in general.
Put your thumb on the wall at about eye level. Rotate your hand around the thumb twice (or more!) without taking the thumb off the wall.
It is quite simple to do once you know the trick. But figuring out the trick is not easy.
It is quite simple to do once you know the trick. But figuring out the trick is not easy.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I said it sounds complicated based on what you said. I asked you to elaborate, then you dodged.
The assertion I made was the important difference between abstention and recovery.
I gave you a wiki-link, you say you're familiar with the concept. That should be enough.
Your own standards put us on equal ground.
Seems odd not to acknowledge you misspoke and conflated abstention with recovery.
If you don't rank, then I would not need qualifications to correct you, only facts.
It seems clear what you were describing was not recovery; it's abstention. It shouldn't matter who says it if it's true and verifiable.
First, how did you arrive at this conclusion? You may wish to go back and reread my posts.
We'll get to these when you tell me your qualifications here.
Nope. I answered everything you've asked me directly. I'll thank you to not accuse me of using tactics I haven't used.
And I answered by saying that abstention is a part of recovery.
You provided a wiki-link. Should I then assume that you have the condition outlined in that link?
I'm sorry you're struggling with my explanation.
This makes no sense. Unless you provide qualifications, there is no way for those reading to know if your assertions are fact-based.
Okay. If that's what you believe, despite what I've said, it's pointless to continue to discuss this.
At any rate, I've said what I needed to say, and you've offered your perspective as well. There is nothing that will come in continuing this discourse, as we are beginning to go around in circles. I think we're done here.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
You cropped my carefully worded reply which was a question not a conclusion.
If you are an addict or in recovery it's odd that I asked the question and you dodged it since your own stated conditions for speaking intelligently about these subjects is inclusion is being an addict or in recovery.
My qualifications for speaking intelligently about any subject is knowledge of the subject. People learn things in many ways. I don't know precisely when or how I learned that abstention is different than recovery.
None the less it's true, I brought evidence to support.
I guess before I walk away from this, it's only fair I address these.
Counseling, to my knowledge based on talking to those going through it, is different for each person depending on one's dependencies and triggers. Personally, I've never gone to counseling despite my addictive tendencies. Practices include the 12 steps of recovery:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol–that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
12-Step Programs
A 12-step program is a set of guiding principles outlining a course of action for addiction recovery. Learn about the many different 12 step programs.
And yes, in my experience and to my understanding, these amends are required by all.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I asked if recovery has multiple parts. Which was leading to asking what those parts are. Then the parts can be assessed for complexity.
Instead you dodged, and asked me a personal question.
But did not answer about the multiple parts.
Sorry, I don't know what you're saying here or how it relates to the important difference between abstention and recovery.
It's no struggle. I noticed the fault in what you said immediately. And it took 2 posts to confirm it.
Verifiable facts are the way for those reading to know. That is what the wiki link is for.
Well sure. It would have been much quicker to acknowledge you were describing abstention.
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dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I guess before I walk away from this, it's only fair I address these.
Counseling, to my knowledge based on talking to those going through it, is different for each person depending on one's dependencies and triggers. Personally, I've never gone to counseling despite my addictive tendencies. Practices include the 12 steps of recovery:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol–that our lives had become unmanageable.2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.8. Made a list of persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.12-Step Programs
A 12-step program is a set of guiding principles outlining a course of action for addiction recovery. Learn about the many different 12 step programs.www.addictioncenter.com
And yes, in my experience and to my understanding, these amends are required by all.
Numbers 4 and 9, doing both are not simple. The admission that counseling is different for each person should be a strong indicator that recovery is not simple.