Sister Beck's Talk

[Starfish]

IMO a "super Mormon wife" is a rarity. 99% of us fell short. My house is seldom spotless. I'm not much of a cook. Someone has created this image that we all feel pressured to fit into. It's just an image; it's not real. Of course we have responsibilities to our family. But don't blame the Church, or Sister Beck, or your visiting teachers, or whomever, for the expectations. You know your limits and when you're doing your best. That's all you can do and no one has the right to expect more. We all get overwhelmed and want to escape or quit. This is normal. My husband was a bishop when I still had babies and toddlers at home. That was the hardest time of my life.

My kids are grown now. I look back on all the things I could have done better. FHE, scripture study, and family prayer was hit and miss AT BEST. Too often I let them sit in front of the TV, or play at someone else's house when I should have had them home. I was terrible at teaching skills, because it was easier to do it myself. But I was there, and I loved them and they knew it. And I loved their dad and they knew that too. I think that was much more important than the dishes.

 

[Katzpur]

I hate to see so much disagreement and hard feelings between members of the same faith. Just so you know my wife and I have been married 7 years, and have two boys(5 and 3). Motherhood is not something that comes naturally to my wife, it is a daily struggle. She struggles with patience, anxiety, depression, and lack of self worth.

Do me a favor, will you? Tell your wife she has a soulmate on RF. My husband and I waited for nearly nine years to have our first child -- by choice. We had our first, a son, when I was 31 and our second, a daugher, when I was 34. I love both of my children, both of whom are now grown, more than I have words to express. Motherhood didn't come naturally to me, either. I felt like a fish out of water when I tried playing with them when they were little. I was pretty good at comforting them when they were sick or got hurt, but I seldom really enjoyed them. From the day they were born, I looked forward to when they grew up. Believe me, I wrote the book on anxiety, depression and lack of self-worth.

My wife is very intelligent, and has excelled at every job she has ever worked. She had two years of college under her belt, and a good job when she became pregnant with our first, (5 1/2 months into our marriage, boy were we not prepared!) My wife hears all of the time about how her friends have their degree's and great jobs. She feels like the world looks down on her for being "just a mother".

Living here in "Zion," I didn't feel like the world looked down on me for being "just a mother," but I did feel like most of the women in the wards I was in for those nine childless years looked at me like some kind of a freak. I was fairly open with people who asked why we "hadn't started our family yet," and when I would explain that I just wasn't ready to become a mother, it was as if I had built a wall between me and every other LDS woman alive. I also had a career, and I loved it. It wasn't something I wanted to give up and if I hadn't worked part time when my kids were little, I think I'd have gone stark raving mad.

On the same side she feels pressure from the "Molly Mormons" about when are you having another child, is your home spotless, have you read the entire Ensign this month, etc. Man, I am glad I am not a woman!

LOL! Well, I'm actually very glad I am a woman, and I am very glad I chose to have children. I won't say it was easy, because it wasn't, and my kids truly caused me a lot of grief. Neither one of them remained active in the Church, which is probably one of the reasons I have such a hard time with talks like Sister Beck's. Maybe I wasn't a "mother who knows," but I was a "mother who tried." I guess that doesn't count for much in her eyes, though. Hopefully, my Heavenly Father will be more understanding than she seems to be.

I just want to add one more thought. It might be kind of off-topic, but I don't care. Several years ago in Relief Society, the sister giving the lesson (which was the annual "good mothers have good children" one ), addressed the topic of kids who have gone astray. Well, I was pretty much past my kids' teenage years by that point and even though I don't know how I managed to survive them, I managed to keep my head above water somehow. Anyway, in talking about how to handle kids who make bad choices, she quoted Sister Hinckley. I can't remember the quote verbatim, but I do remember it pretty close. Sister Hinckley said (as best I can remember), "Above all, salvage the relationship." What I got out of this was that if your kids refuse to go to church, are beligerant and rude to you, and choose to rebel against everything you value, don't let any of these things come between you. Your relationship with your kids is more important than anything "mothers who know" may feel is so critical.

Okay, so I'm done with my rant...

P.S. Except to say that I now have a great relationship with both of my kids (28 and 25).

 

[Bishka]

. But don't blame the Church, or Sister Beck, or your visiting teachers, or whomever, for the expectations

When she says it herself:

From her talk:

Mothers who know honor sacred ordinances and covenants. I have visited sacrament meetings in some of the poorest places on the earth where mothers have dressed with great care in their Sunday best despite walking for miles on dusty streets and using worn-out public transportation. They bring daughters in clean and ironed dresses with hair brushed to perfection; their sons wear white shirts and ties and have missionary haircuts. These mothers know they are going to sacrament meeting, where covenants are renewed

Therefore, mothers who know create a climate for spiritual and temporal growth in their homes. Another word for nurturing is homemaking. Homemaking includes cooking, washing clothes and dishes, and keeping an orderly home. Home is where women have the most power and influence; therefore, Latter-day Saint women should be the best homemakers in the world.

Do you see this? It says Latter-day Saint women should be the best homemakers in the world. How do you think it makes me feel when I hate homemaker and I'm no good at it?

That's my issue.

 

[Sola'lor]

We had our first, a son, when I was 31 and our second, a daugher, when I was 34.

My fiancee is 32 and we aren't even married yet let alone having kids.

 

[nutshell]

My fiancee is 32 and we aren't even married yet let alone having kids.

I'll see you in hell.

 

[Sola'lor]

I'll see you in hell.

Well her papers are getting processed. It's up to the US and Philippine governments now to see if she can come here. But if it's not going to be within this yer I'm going over there and we will just get married over there. I'm only 23 so I still have lots of time. Hehehe.

 

[zookeeper]

Yeah, well as I said before, I think this would have been a vastly different talk if she had just given it in Relief Society. Given as it was to the body of the church, I agree with you.

i believe that sis. beck was inspired to give this talk to the world. today's society attacks and belittles the woman's role in the family. everyone needs to hear this. children need to hear that what their mothers are doing everyday in the home is special and a sacrifice. men need to know how important it is that they support their wives and not expect them to create income. i don't see any men online whining about how they are constantly told that they need to have better educations and better jobs to support their family. they are told that their sacred duty is to "clock-in" to work everyday. i've got a hot husband who works hard so i can be at home, free to do the little things that make our home run smoothly. thanks honey!!!

 

[Katzpur]

i believe that sis. beck was inspired to give this talk to the world. today's society attacks and belittles the woman's role in the family. everyone needs to hear this. children need to hear that what their mothers are doing everyday in the home is special and a sacrifice. men need to know how important it is that they support their wives and not expect them to create income. i don't see any men online whining about how they are constantly told that they need to have better educations and better jobs to support their family. they are told that their sacred duty is to "clock-in" to work everyday. i've got a hot husband who works hard so i can be at home, free to do the little things that make our home run smoothly. thanks honey!!!

I'm very happy for you. It must be very comfortable to fit the mold.

 

[tnutz]

Do you see this? It says Latter-day Saint women should be the best homemakers in the world. How do you think it makes me feel when I hate homemaker and I'm no good at it?

That's my issue.

Should is the key work. Just like Latter-Day Saint men SHOULD be the most honest, diligent hard-working employee's, are they always? I don't enjoy helping my neighbors move, home teaching or even going to Church alot of the time. I know I should though, so I will try my best to. I am not upset when I am told in a talk of what things I SHOULD do. I have many areas that I need to improve on. I don't always need a conference talk to remind me, and honestly, I don't like to hear it, but it is still true.
Again, Sister Beck's talk was full of truths and received well from many people, but only YOU and the Lord know what is specifically right in your life. I think talks that are hard to hear usually cause us to reflect and look inward a little more. The real question is:
Do we let our own desires and wordly influences form our opinions and decisions, or do they come from our the teachings of the Lord, and personal revelation?

 

[tnutz]

Do me a favor, will you? Tell your wife she has a soulmate on RF. My husband and I waited for nearly nine years to have our first child -- by choice. We had our first, a son, when I was 31 and our second, a daugher, when I was 34. I love both of my children, both of whom are now grown, more than I have words to express. Motherhood didn't come naturally to me, either. I felt like a fish out of water when I tried playing with them when they were little. I was pretty good at comforting them when they were sick or got hurt, but I seldom really enjoyed them. From the day they were born, I looked forward to when they grew up. Believe me, I wrote the book of anxiety, depression and lack of self-worth.

Katz,
Ithink you are 100% correct on the Salvage the relationship thing. Also, I have seen many kids fall away from the church, despite being raised in the "perfect mormon home". Some come back and some don't. It is not always a reflection on the parents. I still know it is best to have scripture study, family prayer, FHE, ect. I think the "perfect Mormon home", "perfect Mormon wife", ect. were created by Mormon culture. Mormon culture is definitely not always right. Talk about the philosphy's of men mingled with scripture!
So ignore the "Mormon Mold", but heed the doctrine.
On a personal note, Katz I have been reading your posts for the past few years, and have so much respect for you and your knowledge of the gospel.

 

[zookeeper]

I'm very happy for you. It must be very comfortable to fit the mold.

but isn't that the test of this life? to continue to shape ourselves into "the mold"? or in other words...submit our will to god's will? everyone of us have our imperfections that keep us from fitting exactly into the mold. and those are the things we are to be working on. i personally hate doing dishes. they don't ever stop coming! but its worth the peace that a neat, not perfectly clean, home brings.

 

[Katzpur]

but isn't that the test of this life? to continue to shape ourselves into "the mold"? or in other words...submit our will to god's will? everyone of us have our imperfections that keep us from fitting exactly into the mold. and those are the things we are to be working on. i personally hate doing dishes. they don't ever stop coming! but its worth the peace that a neat, not perfectly clean, home brings.

If I were convinced that it's God's will that I conform to Sister Beck's interpretation of what makes a woman a good mother, I would certainly be less critical of the message I got out of her talk.

Let's just look at one paragraph from her talk:

"Mothers who know honor sacred ordinances and covenants. I have visited sacrament meetings in some of the poorest places on the earth where mothers have dressed with great care in their Sunday best despite walking for miles on dusty streets and using worn-out public transportation. They bring daughters in clean and ironed dresses with hair brushed to perfection; their sons wear white shirts and ties and have missionary haircuts. These mothers know they are going to sacrament meeting, where covenants are renewed. These mothers have made and honor temple covenants. They know that if they are not pointing their children to the temple, they are not pointing them toward desired eternal goals. These mothers have influence and power."

What about mothers whose fifteen-year-old sons don't want to have a missionary haircut or wear a white shirt and tie to church? Do you know how unimaginably grateful I would have been if my fifteen-year-old son had been marginally cooperative about even going to church! If he had said, "Mom, I'll go, but I will wear what I want to wear," I would have gotten down on my knees and thanked my Heavenly Father for helping my son to be such a good boy. I did not make any covenants in the temple that required me to incur hostility between me and my children. There are things that are important to our Heavenly Father and things that aren't and I think that "Mothers who know" are able to recognize them. I would like to have been a mother who had influence, but I never had a desire to be a mother who had power.

 

[tnutz]

If I were convinced that it's God's will that I conform to Sister Beck's interpretation of what makes a woman a good mother, I would certainly be less critical of the message I got out of her talk.

Let's just look at one paragraph from her talk:

"Mothers who know honor sacred ordinances and covenants. I have visited sacrament meetings in some of the poorest places on the earth where mothers have dressed with great care in their Sunday best despite walking for miles on dusty streets and using worn-out public transportation. They bring daughters in clean and ironed dresses with hair brushed to perfection; their sons wear white shirts and ties and have missionary haircuts. These mothers know they are going to sacrament meeting, where covenants are renewed. These mothers have made and honor temple covenants. They know that if they are not pointing their children to the temple, they are not pointing them toward desired eternal goals. These mothers have influence and power."

What about mothers whose fifteen-year-old sons don't want to have a missionary haircut or wear a white shirt and tie to church? Do you know how unimaginably grateful I would have been if my fifteen-year-old son had been marginally cooperative about even going to church! If he had said, "Mom, I'll go, but I will wear what I want to wear," I would have gotten down on my knees and thanked my Heavenly Father for helping my son to be such a good boy. I did not make any covenants in the temple that required me to incur hostility between me and my children. There are things that are important to our Heavenly Father and things that aren't and I think that "Mothers who know" are able to recognize them. I would like to have been a mother who had influence, but I never had a desire to be a mother who had power.

Sister Beck is not saying you are a failure if your boys don't want missionary haircuts, but there is nothing wrong with you encouraging it. Or encourage your kids to put on their Sunday best for Church. You don't force them to do those things, just as the Lord does not force you. But you encourage, set the example. Sister Beck is encouraging women, not telling them they are terrible if they can't do it all.

 

[nutshell]

Beck's talk promotes stereotyping, which may be a basis for discrimination. There is already the problem of the "self-righteous" looking down on others in the Church. Beck validated their sins and encouraged them to continue.

 

[tnutz]

Beck's talk promotes stereotyping, which may be a basis for discrimination. There is already the problem of the "self-righteous" looking down on others in the Church. Beck validated their sins and encouraged them to continue.

Stereotyping? Striving to be better is a stereotype? I agree that "self-righteousness" is a problem, but in no way is Beck encouraging that.

 

[nutshell]

Stereotyping? Striving to be better is a stereotype? I agree that "self-righteousness" is a problem, but in no way is Beck encouraging that.

Striving to be better is not a stereotype. Telling the general population of the Church that a particular mold is the best is.

 

[Bishka]

but isn't that the test of this life? to continue to shape ourselves into "the mold"? or in other words...submit our will to god's will? everyone of us have our imperfections that keep us from fitting exactly into the mold. and those are the things we are to be working on. i personally hate doing dishes. they don't ever stop coming! but its worth the peace that a neat, not perfectly clean, home brings.

To be sheep? And follow mindlessly?

Not everyone is going to be the perfect homemaker, missionary, mother, father, etc. Those things are not required for us to make it to heaven. Likewise, do we have to be a Republican to get to heaven and be a good Mormon? Do we have to be parents to make it to heaven? Do we have to be stay-at home mothers to make it to heaven?

 

[Katzpur]

On a personal note, Katz I have been reading your posts for the past few years, and have so much respect for you and your knowledge of the gospel.

Holy Cow! You've been lurking here for years! Anyway, thank you for the compliment. You made my day. :yes:

 

[Katzpur]

Sister Beck is not saying you are a failure if your boys don't want missionary haircuts, but there is nothing wrong with you encouraging it. Or encourage your kids to put on their Sunday best for Church. You don't force them to do those things, just as the Lord does not force you. But you encourage, set the example. Sister Beck is encouraging women, not telling them they are terrible if they can't do it all.

You know, it's too bad Sister Beck can't join in this discussion. Then we could all just ask her what it was she meant to say.

Anyway, I posted this statement by Chieko Okasaki on this thread a number of pages back and I still think it describes my feelings better than I could myself:

"On one occasion I attended a meeting where someone was telling us about the importance of teaching women to strengthen the family. I had a little trouble with that presentation in three ways. First, that approach seems to assume that women are weakening the family. Of the hundreds of women I know, I don't know anybody who isn't doing the best she can to make her family strong. Second, I want to know if men are getting the same message. Men as a group certainly have far more control than women over many of the social and economic factors that make strong families possible. And third, I want a few reports from the real world about the specifics of family life. I don't think generalities are very helpful. Until those three conditions are met, the major product of sermons about strengthening the family is likely to be guilt, and I'm against guilt."

 

[zookeeper]

To be sheep? And follow mindlessly?

Not everyone is going to be the perfect homemaker, missionary, mother, father, etc. Those things are not required for us to make it to heaven.

first, its rude for you to claim that what i am doing is mindless. you don't know how seriously i study and pray so that i can know what it is that i'm supposed to be doing in my life. that includes when i hear general authorities addressing us. i pray to feel the spirit and know for myself.
second, i believe that sis. beck was simply expressing the ideal. wouldn't you agree? some may listen and be offended that the ideal is just not going to work in their life. others may agree that it is the ideal and ask how can they make their life a little more like that. isn't that what our leaders give us at general conference? we can then do what we want with it.
third, i don't think when president hinckley would say, in conference, be nice to others on the road he was talking about things that are required to get into heaven. or when dallin h. oaks says, in conference, to not overschedule your children, i don't think he was talking about eternal requirements... the message is...be a little better