Sister Beck's Talk

[nutshell]

Wow, I didn't even really hear her talk! I guess I should have been listening closer. I hope you guys can all find a way to get along!

You can read her sexist comments at lds.org.

 

[SoyLeche]

Wow, I didn't even really hear her talk! I guess I should have been listening closer. I hope you guys can all find a way to get along!

I wasn't really listening to her talk either. I had taken my son into the nursury to play (see what a great guy I am!). I had the sound piped in there, but wasn't really paying attention.

 

[Bishka]

the big difference is that your typical "Molly Mormon" is the Lord's standard,

Actually, it's man's standard. Molly Mormon has a completely different connotation to it.

everything else is sub-par.

Disgusting sentiment, but I've learned to accept that from you. So women who don't cook, clean house, act like a typical goodie-twoshoes is a sub-par woman?

that is the message they are trying to convey, just do your best to live up to the Lord's standard, not the worlds, or your own. Yes it is hard, but there is always a way.

Then she could have said that, which she didn't. She never said that just do your best, and even if you fail, you'll be okay because you are doing your best. Nowhere in her talk did she say that.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Actually, it's man's standard. Molly Mormon has a completely different connotation to it.

So what or who is 'Molly Mormon'? I know it's used negatively but what is so bad about her? I mean it's not bad to fit the stereotype is it (although I doubt many do)? Is there something wrong with her? Is she self righteous or something? Is she judgemental? Or does she just drive us crazy because she is too perfect?

Anyway. This thread to me seems to point out the importance of family. I think both sides would agree that the family is the most important thing. Now I don't see how anyone could go wrong as long as they are putting God and the welfare of their family first. I think that will be different in different situations. I think you would all agree with that. I think that far to many people aren't necassarily doing it that way however. I know a lot of poeple who are married, well off financially, and don't have children. Granted, there are many things I don't know, but it seems like sometimes people just don't want to go to the trouble of having kids. That's when it's sad to me.

 

[Bishka]

I know a lot of poeple who are married, well off financially, and don't have children.

LDS people? Because that is who this talk is aimed at.

 

[Bishka]

So what or who is 'Molly Mormon'? I know it's used negatively but what is so bad about her? I mean it's not bad to fit the stereotype is it (although I doubt many do)? Is there something wrong with her? Is she self righteous or something? Is she judgemental? Or does she just drive us crazy because she is too perfect?

The idea that you have to be perfect in everything to be a good wife is a bit sickening for us women.

 

[madhatter85]

Helaman Chapter 13:

24 Yea, wo unto this people, because of this time which has arrived, that ye do cast out the prophets, and do mock them, and cast stones at them, and do slay them, and do all manner of iniquity unto them, even as they did of old time.

25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.

26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

27 But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.

28 Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.

29 O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?
...
38 But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.

She is the Relief Society President, She is privy to revelation regarding the position she was set apart as. Her words are on par with the Prophet's. Ezra Taft Benson said basically the same exact thing. You all need to look hard at yourselves. Read "The Family" again, Sister Beck Merely re-iterated the same things that the prophets have already said.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

Just because Sister Beck is a woman you think she does not know what she is inspired to talk about in General Conference? That to me is sexist. Just because she told you about your "iniquities?" Read the above Helaman quote....

 

[nutshell]

Beck's gender is irrelevant.

Finances are irrelevant.

Beck is not perfect.

 

[Bishka]

Just because Sister Beck is a woman you think she does not know what she is inspired to talk about in General Conference?
That to me is sexist.

I never said that, you just did.

Just because she told you about your "iniquities?"

My iniquities? What a laugh! I know my faults, other people don't need to point them out for me (including yourself, remember that scripture, "Take the beam out of your eye before you mention the mote in others").

 

[madhatter85]

It is sad to hear you reject the words of the prophets. maybe see the beam in your own eye and maybe you'll be humbled enough to listen to the words of prophets.

It's funny how people have "selective hearing" when it comes to listening to the things people say.

My wife isn't even a member of the Church and she loved the talk. the only people whining about it are members of the church who should already know the divine roles of each family member.

You are takign is as "putting women in a place" when no, it is not putting women in ANY place, it's "DO YOUR JOB RIGHT"

The people in this world don't want to listen to epople telling them to do thier job right because it makes them feel inadequate, but why feel inadequate? because you know you're doing it wrong? if you know you're already doing it right, why does it matter? you guys sound exactly like them in the book of Mormon whining about how it's "too hard" how about asking the Lord for help? how about putting your trust inthe Lord and asking for his guidance and help? You already shoudl know that he won't ever ask anything of you unless he prepares a way for you to do it. how about getting off your "woe is me" attitude and actually follow the commandments given.

 

[Bishka]

It is sad to hear you reject the words of the prophets.

Sister Beck isn't a prophet. :areyoucra

maybe see the beam in your own eye and maybe you'll be humbled enough to listen to the words of prophets.

Oh look everyone, he's calling me to repentance. Oh I do believe I must go and repent of all my sins, oh thank you MH for showing me the light.

I know what my faults are and you are in no position to point them out. Worry about your own.

It's funny how people have "selective hearing" when it comes to listening to the things people say.

Yeah, that's funny isn't it?

 

[madhatter85]

I never said that, you just did.

Then why are you mocking the prophets? why are you mocking the words that are spoken, She is a Servant of the Lord. and read this:

D&C 1

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

My iniquities? What a laugh! I know my faults, other people don't need to point them out for me (including yourself, remember that scripture, "Take the beam out of your eye before you mention the mote in others").

Yes, you do know your faults, otherwise you wouldn't feel inadequate. Try doing what she said instead of getting upset about it. then you won't feel inadequate.

 

[Bishka]

President Hinckley has said it so wonderfully:

Though of various nationalities, you are all of one great family. You are daughters of God. You are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In your youth you speak of the future, and it is bright with promise. You speak of hope and faith and achievement. You speak of goodness and love and peace. You speak of a better world than we have ever known.


You are creatures of divinity; you are daughters of the Almighty. Limitless is your potential. Magnificent is your future, if you will take control of it. Do not let your lives drift in a fruitless and worthless manner.

Link here

This is what we need to hear, not "If you don't do everything exactly right, and exactly how we say, then you aren't good enough."

Some more from President Hinckley:

Every woman is a daughter of God. You cannot offend her without offending Him. I plead with the men of this Church to look for and nurture the divinity that lies within their companions. To the degree that happens, there will be harmony, peace, enrichment of family life, nurturing love.

The women in our lives are creatures endowed with particular qualities, divine qualities, which cause them to reach out in kindness and with love to those about them. We can encourage that outreach if we will give them opportunity to give expression to the talents and impulses that lie within them. In our old age my beloved companion said to me quietly one evening, “You have always given me wings to fly, and I have loved you for it.”

Women are such a necessary part of the plan of happiness which our Heavenly Father has outlined for us. That plan cannot operate without them.

Link here

 

[madhatter85]

Sister Beck isn't a prophet. :areyoucra

She is a Servant of the Lord and can recieve revelation and inspiration just the same.

Oh look everyone, he's calling me to repentance. Oh I do believe I must go and repent of all my sins, oh thank you MH for showing me the light.

this post was not directed to you, and you are takign it personally.

But i'm glad i could show you the light

I know what my faults are and you are in no position to point them out. Worry about your own.

I didn't need to point them out, Sister Beck did a good thourough job of doing that part. But thanks for trying to give me credit.

 

[madhatter85]

President Hinckley has said it so wonderfully:



Link here

This is what we need to hear, not "If you don't do everything exactly right, and exactly how we say, then you aren't good enough."

Some more from President Hinckley:

Link here

Yet none of this conflicts with Sister Beck's Talk. Funny how that happens.

 

[SoyLeche]

President Hinckley has said it so wonderfully:



Link here

This is what we need to hear, not "If you don't do everything exactly right, and exactly how we say, then you aren't good enough."

Some more from President Hinckley:







Link here

Nothing there contradicts what Sis. Beck said. I'm not saying that it was a great talk (some of it was downright ridiculous - missionary haircuts???). For the moment I'm withholding judgement on it until I can consider it more in depth (which I probably won't )

 

[Bishka]

Then why are you mocking the prophets?

1. She isn't a prophet. 2. I'm not mocking, I'm simply disagreeing with what she said. 3. You need to learn the meaning of the word mocking

Mocking
1. To treat with ridicule or contempt; deride.

Link here

It may be you opinion that I am doing these things, but I am simply disagreeing with her methodology of approaching this subject and how it came across. There have been hundreds of other talks by different Relief Society presidents towards the women and for the most part, I've loved them all.

Yes, you do know your faults, otherwise you wouldn't feel inadequate.

To correct you, I don't feel inadequate. I know what I can do, and I know how I can grow, I would suggest you work on your own salvation instead of worrying about mine.

Try doing what she said instead of getting upset about it. then you won't feel inadequate.

That is a complete and utter falsity. I have tried being the 'perfect molly-mormon housewife'. That title does not suit me. My title encompasses: mother (someday), sister, wife, daughter, educator, entertainer, etc.

If you really understood what you would saying, that you would actually understand how your attitude disgusts many women. You are basically telling me to try harder when you have not a clue what I am doing in my life.

So guess what, you aren't doing good enough, try harder, and even if you try harder, that's still not good enough, so I'm going to have to lecture you that you aren't trying harder and you aren't really listening to the prophets, you are mocking them because you haven't tried hard enough. See what I mean?

 

[Bishka]

But i'm glad i could show you the light

You know that's sarcasm, right? :areyoucra

 

[madhatter85]

Nothing there contradicts what Sis. Beck said. I'm not saying that it was a great talk (some of it was downright ridiculous - missionary haircuts???). For the moment I'm withholding judgement on it until I can consider it more in depth (which I probably won't )

That's funny, when i was 7 or 8 I went to a place to get a hair cut and the lady asked me how i wanted it cut. and before my mom could speak i spoke up and said "I want a missionary maircut"

 

[Bishka]

Nothing there contradicts what Sis. Beck said.

For the most part, no it doesn't.

The way she went around giving her talk and how she said some things is what I have the main issue with. It's all about the presentation and attitude. I've seen similar talks that I've full-heartedly agreed with, but their attitude and presentation were completely different.