Smoker's Rights vs. Everyone Else's Rights

[McBell]

Yup, it's simply because she's smoking. And it's simply because I'm the one with the annoying ringtone. It's all a matter of measure, if you're alone in the bar nobody is going to mind you making an obnoxious phone call either or having your annoying ringtone ring every two minutes. The point is, it is never the case with smoking that it is considered a no-no, while other things are. There's simply no reason this should be the case. Should I not be allowed to fart to my heart's desire by the same token? It's allowed, after all...

Nice double standard you got going there.
Especially when trying to claim the higher courtesy ground...

 

[Commoner]

Cell phone usage actually is banned - or at least requested to not be used via big signage - in several places - theaters, doctors' offices, fitness centers. Although those aren't legal sanctions, one outlawed example is while driving.

So is smoking...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And that is it in a nut shell. The minority wants to dictate what the majority does and controls them by legislation.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but you are saying non-smoking bars would not be profitable if smoking bars where allowed too?

I would think all the complainers would love to frequent non smoking establishments.

Call me stupid, but I see a market for both kind of places.

I don't think it's a matter of control; it's a matyer of accomodating the greatest number of people.

A smoker doesn't smoke all the time. A non-smoking restaurant still accommodates people who smoke; they just can't smoke right at that moment. OTOH, a smoking restaurant doesn't accommodate people bothered by smoke - they wouldn't be able to hold their breath for the entire meal.

 

[McBell]

Cell phone usage actually is banned - or at least requested to not be used via big signage - in several places - theaters, doctors' offices, fitness centers. Although those aren't legal sanctions, one outlawed example is while driving.

So is smoking...

So is smoking what?
There are a lot of things in Songbirds post, which one(s) are "so is smoking"?

 

[Magic Man]

So you are basically saying that everyplace will always allow smoking because it makes them more money?
That non-smokers are just completely unable to stop them selves from going into smoking allowed businesses and the ONLY way to get the non-smokers to not go into smoking allowed businesses is to ban all smoking?

Really?

Nope, not really. I'm basically saying that until the culture is changed by a drastic move, nothing is going to change.

 

[Commoner]

So is smoking what?

"Banned" in several places, including the ones Songbird mentioned (doctor's office,...).

 

[McBell]

Nope, not really. I'm basically saying that until the culture is changed by a drastic move, nothing is going to change.

All because non-smokers are unable to keep themselves from entering a smoking establishment?

I had no idea that non-smokers were so weak willed.

 

[Commoner]

Why? When I make every effort to be courteous, why can't people accept that as good enough? Why do they have the right to be DIScourteous?

Why do people who don't want to hear my annoying ringtone or smell my farting have the right to be "DIScorteous"?

 

[Magic Man]

I like knowing I can choose any restaurant or bar and not risk potential health hazards or leave smelling like smoke.

And this is the main point. Without smoking everyone can choose any restaurant they want. The smokers can still go; they just have to smoke outside. Now instead of me having the inconvenience of being in a small bar with lots of smoke, the smokers have the inconvenience of having to go outside to smoke.

 

[McBell]

"Banned" in several places, including the ones Songbird mentioned (doctor's office,...).

Ah..
I agree.
And in California, it also illegal for Truckers to smoke in their trucks.

 

[Magic Man]

So you want the government to ban smoking so that you can into your favourite bar?
But wait, you already go into your favourite bar, even with the smoking.
So the smoking does not bother you enough to stick to your own guns and not go into the bar?

That's right. First, for me, it's not as big a deal, since I used to smoke. second, when a bunch of my friends are going somewhere to have a good time for the night, I'll take the inconvenience of dealing with smoke for the payoff of having a good time with a bunch of friends, instead of sitting at home by myself sulking.

Seems to me that you want the government to ban smoking because non-smokers are unable to stop themselves from entering a smoking allowed establishment.

Incorrect. I want them to ban smoking in restaurants and bars because otherwise those places aren't going to stop allowing it, and it's better for them not to allow it.

 

[Commoner]

Ah..
I agree.
And in California, it also illegal for Truckers to smoke in their trucks.

Now that's just insane...

 

[Magic Man]

All because non-smokers are unable to keep themselves from entering a smoking establishment?

I had no idea that non-smokers were so weak willed.

I had no idea you couldn't discuss things like an adult.

 

[McBell]

Why do people who don't want to hear my annoying ringtone or smell my farting have the right to be "DIScorteous"?

Who has made the claim that they have that right?

I mean, you flat out said that simply smoking a cigarette gives non-smokers the right to be dis-courteous. Post #199.

 

[Storm]

Why do people who don't want to hear my annoying ringtone or smell my farting have the right to be "DIScorteous"?

Did you even read the example you're opining on?

 

[McBell]

I had no idea you couldn't discuss things like an adult.

I am not the one trying to use the "non-smokers are completely unable to stop themselves from going into smoking allowed bars and restaurants so the government needs to ban smoking from all of them" argument.
You are.

 

[darkstar]

Thats interesting.

Still, they do take up hospital beds. Thats more the point and a problem here. They take up hospital beds, waste the time of doctors and nursing staff who could be doing better things with their time.

People that eat cheeseburgers, or drink and end up with liver disease end up in those beds too. But they seem to be more acceptable now for some odd, BS reason.

Ok, I just have to make a point here. Everyone is talking about smokers being rude, but all I'm seeing is a bunch of people arguing that if a NON smoker wants to they can be rude all they want. Why? Is it because more people support the non smoker BECAUSE they don't smoke?
Also I find it funny, everyone using this park scenario to seemingly attack Storm because she does indeed smoke. And what do people talk about? "There's carcinogens in them there cigarettes!" ..... But I wonder how many people actually took at least basic Biology classes. Do you know what a carcinogen actually is? No it's not that it "causes cancer" it causes cell division. Cancer comes from a gene that's already there, as far as we know in most cases. This also means if the potential is there, and you might not have developed cancer in your natural life, that you may by speeding up cell division. But that's why some people get cancer from smoking and others don't.
This is indeed a scary thing. But since you brought up "smoking causes cancer." And the park I want to make the point, that nobody gets mad at the person cutting the grass while people are in the park.
Why do I bring this up? What harm is cut grass? It's only allergy concerns right? Wrong. Cut grass smell, is actually the release of carcinogens by the grass. That's right, you cut the grass you get bombarded by carcinogens. Therefor cut grass could indeed "Cause cancer."
Everything in society today causes cancer, Jebus look at the reports that come out seemingly every couple of months on stuff that we found out is bad for us.

 

[McBell]

Now that's just insane...

It is a result of the "No Smoking in the workplace" law.
I know my co-driver was extremely ticked when he got his $500 ticket for smoking in the truck.

 

[Songbird]

Why? When I make every effort to be courteous, why can't people accept that as good enough? Why do they have the right to be DIScourteous?

Storm, your example of someone sitting next to you then asking you to smoke elsewhere was ridiculous. In most instances, if I don't want to be around smoke I'd be the one to leave.

 

[Magic Man]

I am not the one trying to use the "non-smokers are completely unable to stop themselves from going into smoking allowed bars and restaurants so the government needs to ban smoking from all of them" argument.
You are.

And this is why I made my comment. No one is making that argument, and it's already been explained to you. You're smart enough to get this, so I'll try again:

The reason for the ban is that with the culture that has been established, the only way to be a successful bar or restaurant was to have the option to smoke inside. Therefore all bars and restaurants allowed smoking. Therefore, for non-smokers, the two options were:

1) Don't go out with friends, but be a recluse instead.
2) Go out with friends, and get past the inconvenience of the smoke.

Now, with the ban, there is no need to decide. Everyone can go out, including smokers. The smokers just have to go outside to smoke now.