Smoker's Rights vs. Everyone Else's Rights

[Storm]

I have kids and bad lungs; but support your right to smoke. I wish you'd quit, but what can I say?

I didn't mean yours.

I wish I'd quit, too.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm sorry if you don't see the difference.

I'm sorry if you don't see the similarity. If there actually is a meaningful difference that you perceive, you could always try explaining it. I know, sounds crazy.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Perhaps another planet?

I'm not a smoker and never have been but I can see some people wanting that. In fact, I'm guessing some would want to outlaw it all together. Now, I'm fairly confident that's not what you would want but if a smoker is making every attempt to not be around (and this should be defined) a non-smoker, what's the beef? Kicking them out all together just seem a bit harsh IMO.

I'm not out to make it illegal; I just object to this idea that "it's not illegal" implies "I'm entitled to do it".

 

[darkendless]

Smoking is legal. It's taxed (at ludicrous rates), it's demonized, and it's sneered at, but it IS legal. I have every right to smoke in a public place, and no obligation to go to all the trouble I already do to be courteous. So tell me, why is it unreasonable to expect people to at least not be *** holes about it?

Because they have to get the same toxins that you do. Thats terribly unreasonable. Children use parks, don't you think of them before you light up and pollute their lungs?

It annoys me that people get offended when you ask them to blow their smoke away from you. Its as if because they're allowed to smoke everyone has to deal with it. Smoking is only legal because of the tax it generates otherwise i'm sure the government ewouldn't allow such a drain on public health.

I agree with mr. Penguin, legal shouldn't mean that you're entitled to do it.

 

[Storm]

Because they have to get the same toxins that you do.

No, they don't. They make a conscious choice to walk up and sit next to me. Why should I be held responsible for their choices?

Children use parks, don't you think of them before you light up and pollute their lungs?

OH NOEZ, NOT TEH CHILDRENZ!!!!!!!!!!

I don't smoke around kids whether they mind or not.

It annoys me that people get offended when you ask them to blow their smoke away from you. Its as if because they're allowed to smoke everyone has to deal with it.

Did you even read the post we're talking about?

Smoking is only legal because of the tax it generates otherwise i'm sure the government ewouldn't allow such a drain on public health.

I agree with mr. Penguin, legal shouldn't mean that you're entitled to do it.

Well tough noogies, it does.

 

[Revoltingest]

Smoking is only legal because of the tax it generates otherwise i'm sure the government ewouldn't allow such a drain on public health.

Avid non-smoker here.....I won't argue that smoking is a good thing, but the public health costs are debatable.....

Reporting on Smoking Costs | Cato @ Liberty

An excerpt.....
or example, the Congressional Research Service found that smokers either impose fairly small costs on nonsmokers or they subsidize them “primarily because smokers’ early death leaves their Social Security and pension contributions unused and available to reduce future financing demands on nonsmokers.” One can find many similar views by other economists in articles on the Internet. Thus, if the Post reporter had Googled “smoker cost on society” the second hit leads to this quote by economist Kip Viscusi:

The other study I’ve done is looking at the financial ramifications to smoking for the rest of us. These include higher medical costs on the one hand, but lower social security, pension, and nursing home costs on the other hand because smokers die sooner. On balance if you put those together, smokers don’t cost us money, but save society $0.32 per pack.


​

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well tough noogies, it does.

There are many legal uses of a public park; not all are compatible with each other: for instance, if one person wants to use a field for frisbee, this means that someone else can't use the same field for soccer. One person doing bagpipe practice will interfere with the ability of the next person to meditate.

If "legal" implies entitlement, are all these people entitled to do what they want?

 

[Storm]

Yes, they are. How they work it out between themselves is up to them, but a little basic courtesy helps.

 

[darkendless]

No, they don't. They make a conscious choice to walk up and sit next to me. Why should I be held responsible for their choices?

I'm not talking about right next to you. You can smell cigarette smoke for quite some distance.
In my opinion if I can smell cancer sticks its rude. People have their right to cancer themsevles (i'd prefer to harvest organs so they can actually be useful) but not the right to impose it on others which they do when they smoke generally within about 10-15m of another person.

OH NOEZ, NOT TEH CHILDRENZ!!!!!!!!!!

I don't smoke around kids whether they mind or not. [/quote]

Thats good...... I guess. Screw everyone else though right

Did you even read the post we're talking about?

That was a general comment. Would you get offended if someone in your vicinity asked you not to smoke?

Well tough noogies, it does.

For now at least. Shows how inconsiderate smokers are though they they don't really care about their affect on other people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, they are. How they work it out between themselves is up to them, but a little basic courtesy helps.

Wait - so the soccer players are entitled to use the field that the frisbee players want, and the frisbee players are entitled to the field that the soccer players want?

What happens if neither side backs down?

 

[Storm]

I'm not talking about right next to you. You can smell cigarette smoke for quite some distance.
In my opinion if I can smell cancer sticks its rude. People have their right to cancer themsevles (i'd prefer to harvest organs so they can actually be useful) but not the right to impose it on others which they do when they smoke generally within about 10-15m of another person.


Thats good...... I guess. Screw everyone else though right



That was a general comment. Would you get offended if someone in your vicinity asked you not to smoke?



For now at least. Shows how inconsiderate smokers are though they they don't really care about their affect on other people.

I'll take that as a "No, I didn't bother to find out what you were talking about, or even the first half of the post I quoted." How considerate of you....

 

[Storm]

Wait - so the soccer players are entitled to use the field that the frisbee players want, and the frisbee players are entitled to the field that the soccer players want?

What happens if neither side backs down?

Up to them.

That's why a little courtesy from all sides is so important.

 

[darkendless]

Avid non-smoker here.....I won't argue that smoking is a good thing, but the public health costs are debatable.....

Reporting on Smoking Costs | Cato @ Liberty

An excerpt.....
or example, the Congressional Research Service found that smokers either impose fairly small costs on nonsmokers or they subsidize them “primarily because smokers’ early death leaves their Social Security and pension contributions unused and available to reduce future financing demands on nonsmokers.” One can find many similar views by other economists in articles on the Internet. Thus, if the Post reporter had Googled “smoker cost on society” the second hit leads to this quote by economist Kip Viscusi:

The other study I’ve done is looking at the financial ramifications to smoking for the rest of us. These include higher medical costs on the one hand, but lower social security, pension, and nursing home costs on the other hand because smokers die sooner. On balance if you put those together, smokers don’t cost us money, but save society $0.32 per pack.


​

Thats interesting.

Still, they do take up hospital beds. Thats more the point and a problem here. They take up hospital beds, waste the time of doctors and nursing staff who could be doing better things with their time.

 

[darkendless]

I'll take that as a "No, I didn't bother to find out what you were talking about, or even the first half of the post I quoted." How considerate of you....

Way to ignore the post Storm. I actually read the last 2 pages FYI.

So by me adding 1 point that isn't a continuation of your discussion I "didn't read the discussion." Nice dodge there

 

[Storm]

Way to ignore the post Storm. I actually read the last 2 pages FYI.

So by me adding 1 point that isn't a continuation of your discussion I "didn't read the discussion." Nice dodge there

Then why are you asking me questions I already answered?

 

[Storm]

As long as we're talking about ignoring points, here's the half you were oblivious to:

I've already said that I stay away from non-smokers. I look around to see if anyone else is smoking, and if so, I make a beeline for them. If no one else is smoking, I find an empty bench. If there is no empty bench, I ask permission before I light up, and if THAT'S denied, I give up on sitting down. I take great pains to impose as little as possible. I don't think it's so much to ask that I be left the hell alone.

And since the post I was referring to was more than two pages ago, which means you didn't read it:

What about the people who see me smoking on a park bench, come sit next to me, then cough ostentatiously and tell me to move. How considerate are THEY?

 

[darkendless]

Then why are you asking me questions I already answered?

It seems as if you're conflicted yourself. On one hand its "i'm entitled to so I will" but on the other you seem to make distinctions for consideration.

 

[darkendless]

As long as we're talking about ignoring points, here's the half you were oblivious to:

And since the post I was referring to was more than two pages ago, which means you didn't read it:

Cheers.

 

[Storm]

It seems as if you're conflicted yourself. On one hand its "i'm entitled to so I will" but on the other you seem to make distinctions for consideration.

Nope. I'm as courteous as I can be, but push me too far and I get ******. That simple.

 

[McBell]

And since the post I was referring to was more than two pages ago, which means you didn't read it:

What about the people who see me smoking on a park bench, come sit next to me, then cough ostentatiously and tell me to move. How considerate are THEY?

I guess he thinks that those people do not exist....
Or perhaps he thinks they have every right to invade your space as long as they are ******** and whining about your smoking?

I have actually met people like that.
It does not matter what they do for because they think smoking is bad for anyone within a 1 million mile radius of the smoker that they have not only the right, but the responsibility, duty even, to nag, harass, bully, whine, complain, whatever it takes to get you to put out your cigarette.

I mean, my god, how dare you disrupt their BBQ with a cigarette six and a half blocks downwind...

THINK OF THE BRATWURSTS!!!