Smoker's Rights vs. Everyone Else's Rights

[Panda]

I have to buy all that stuff for my employees. What if the business owner served the customers on the deck smoking and he was a smoker himself?

Would that be OK?

Do you mean on the deck outside?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then why did you say the jerks in my example aren't being unreasonable?

Outdoors, smoke is more of a nuisance than a health hazard. It's still inconsiderate to smoke around people who don't want it, but smoking on a patio doesn't create the same workplace safety issues.

I think that smoking on a patio can still be inconsiderate, but it's not so much of a danger that I would want to make it illegal.

 

[Storm]

Outdoors, smoke is more of a nuisance than a health hazard. It's still inconsiderate to smoke around people who don't want it, but smoking on a patio doesn't create the same workplace safety issues.

I think that smoking on a patio can still be inconsiderate, but it's not so much of a danger that I would want to make it illegal.

What about the people who see me smoking on a park bench, come sit next to me, then cough ostentatiously and tell me to move. How considerate are THEY?

It's probably not the best use of their time, but I don't think that a person's necessarily being unreasonable if they happen to want to breathe comfortably even when they're tired from walking.

And, what, you assumed an indoor park?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And, what, you assumed an indoor park?

No, I didn't. In the case of the park bench, I was talking about courtesy, not legal obligations. Also, in your park example, the person was apparently seriously bothered by the smoke.

 

[Storm]

No, I didn't. In the case of the park bench, I was talking about courtesy, not legal obligations. Also, in your park example, the person was apparently seriously bothered by the smoke.

If it bothers them so much, why do they choose to sit next to a smoker? It's not like a bus where options are limited.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If it bothers them so much, why do they choose to sit next to a smoker? It's not like a bus where options are limited.

Because they were tired, maybe?

So far, your scenario only has a park and a bench. If they passed up other benches to sit next to you, you haven't told us this yet.

 

[Storm]

Because they were tired, maybe?

So far, your scenario only has a park and a bench. If they passed up other benches to sit next to you, you haven't told us this yet.

How many parks have you seen with only one bench? I've never seen one.

But to play along, yes, they pass up other seats.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How many parks have you seen with only one bench? I've never seen one.

Smaller parks, sure. I've also seen many where the benches are spaced out at fairly long distances along a trail.

But to play along, yes, they pass up other seats.

When you add that, I do agree that it sounds kinda jerky. If they had other bench choices in the immediate area and picked yours just to be difficult, then they had a hand in creating the problem.

That's assuming they had no good reason to sit next to do; if they did have a good reason to pick that specific bench (e.g. the guy's ankle was hurting and your bench was closest), then it would still be you imposing on them.

 

[Storm]

Smaller parks, sure. I've also seen many where the benches are spaced out at fairly long distances along a trail.

I love Portland....

When you add that, I do agree that it sounds kinda jerky. If they had other bench choices in the immediate area and picked yours just to be difficult, then they had a hand in creating the problem.

"Had a hand?" The problem is ENTIRELY their creation!

That's assuming they had no good reason to sit next to do; if they did have a good reason to pick that specific bench (e.g. the guy's ankle was hurting and your bench was closest), then it would still be you imposing on them.

How am I imposing anything by minding my own business? If someone's so desperate for a seat that they sit next to a lit cigarette, that's THEIR choice. Why do they have the right to demand that I conform to their preferences?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How am I imposing anything by minding my own business? If someone's so desperate for a seat that they sit next to a lit cigarette, that's THEIR choice. Why do they have the right to demand that I conform to their preferences?

Let's put it this way: say instead of smoking, you were listening to a ghettoblaster. Would it be right for them to ask you to turn down your music?

"Had a hand?" The problem is ENTIRELY their creation!

I disagree.

By smoking in a public place where it's reasonable to expect to encounter people who dislike smoke, I think you had a hand in creating the situation as well.

 

[Storm]

Let's put it this way: say instead of smoking, you were listening to a ghettoblaster. Would it be right for them to ask you to turn down your music?

Not if I were being reasonable about it. Since I am, absolutely not.

I've already said that I stay away from non-smokers. I look around to see if anyone else is smoking, and if so, I make a beeline for them. If no one else is smoking, I find an empty bench. If there is no empty bench, I ask permission before I light up, and if THAT'S denied, I give up on sitting down. I take great pains to impose as little as possible. I don't think it's so much to ask that I be left the hell alone.

Smoking is legal. It's taxed (at ludicrous rates), it's demonized, and it's sneered at, but it IS legal. I have every right to smoke in a public place, and no obligation to go to all the trouble I already do to be courteous. So tell me, why is it unreasonable to expect people to at least not be *** holes about it?

 

[Storm]

I disagree.

By smoking in a public place where it's reasonable to expect to encounter people who dislike smoke, I think you had a hand in creating the situation as well.

Where the **** else am I supposed to GO?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Rakhel]

a bunch of intolerant dicks is all I see, when someone minding their own business, smoking in a public place, is accosted for smoking. Its like the missionaries who come up to a non-christian and tell them they are going to hell for not believing in Christ. And yet when the non-christian fights back, he is call insensitive.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where the **** else am I supposed to GO?!?!?!?!?!

That's up to you to figure out.

When I was a kid, I was into model rocketry... another legal activity. However, to do it properly means wherever I do it would have to meet certain requirements: you need a clear field with a certain length and width. If I had grown up downtown, there probably wouldn't have been a suitable park near me to do it. As it was, I had to be sensitive to other park users: if someone decided to play a game of frisbee that day, we'd call off our launch. If we were launching and someone came along to play frisbee, we'd pack up and go.

 

[Quiddity]

That's up to you to figure out.

When I was a kid, I was into model rocketry... another legal activity. However, to do it properly means wherever I do it would have to meet certain requirements: you need a clear field with a certain length and width. If I had grown up downtown, there probably wouldn't have been a suitable park near me to do it. As it was, I had to be sensitive to other park users: if someone decided to play a game of frisbee that day, we'd call off our launch. If we were launching and someone came along to play frisbee, we'd pack up and go.

Perhaps another planet?

I'm not a smoker and never have been but I can see some people wanting that. In fact, I'm guessing some would want to outlaw it all together. Now, I'm fairly confident that's not what you would want but if a smoker is making every attempt to not be around (and this should be defined) a non-smoker, what's the beef? Kicking them out all together just seem a bit harsh IMO.

 

[Storm]

Perhaps another planet?

I'm not a smoker and never have been but I can see some people wanting that. In fact, I'm guessing some would want to outlaw it all together. Now, I'm fairly confident that's not what you would want but if a smoker is making every attempt to not be around (and this should be defined) a non-smoker, what's the beef? Kicking them out all together just seem a bit harsh IMO.

You know what? I'd be happier if they did outlaw it. It would be a hell of a lot easier to quit if they weren't available in every corner store.

Since they aren't doing that, I'll settle for people leaving me alone.

 

[Quiddity]

You know what? I'd be happier if they did outlaw it. It would be a hell of a lot easier to quit if they weren't available in every corner store.

Since they aren't doing that, I'll settle for people leaving me alone.

Well, not everybody wants to quit and I honestly don't know on what grounds they'd ever outlaw it without outlawing cheeseburgers next.

 

[Quiddity]

You know what? I'd be happier if they did outlaw it. It would be a hell of a lot easier to quit if they weren't available in every corner store.

Since they aren't doing that, I'll settle for people leaving me alone.

And I don't think you'd be very pleasant to be around the first couple of weeks you quit...

 

[Storm]

Well, not everybody wants to quit and I honestly don't know on what grounds they'd ever outlaw it without outlawing cheeseburgers next.

True, but it would ease the hypocrisy....

And I don't think you'd be very pleasant to be around the first couple of weeks you quit...

 

[Quiddity]

True, but it would ease the hypocrisy....

I have kids and bad lungs; but support your right to smoke. I wish you'd quit, but what can I say?