Smoker's Rights vs. Everyone Else's Rights

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Isn't that illegal over there?

It varies by state/province. And even though it's illegal here in Ontario, I still see people doing it.

 

[Sententia]

In what way are they offending you?

True... My point is to say that if someone is smoking in their house and the smoke enters your house and offends you then should that be illegal?

 

[Kathryn]

Nanny states - OUT OF CONTROL. And like I said, I'm not even a smoker - though I do enjoy a long, skinny menthol cigarette with a martini a couple of times a year.

Apparently I'm going to have to learn to make a martini at home - and then hope my neighbors (the ones with the pool, who throw the ball up against the fence, and sometimes over the fence, and whose kids squeal and splash sometimes till 2 am) don't get a whiff of my smoke - lest they be offended.

 

[McBell]

Nanny states - OUT OF CONTROL. And like I said, I'm not even a smoker - though I do enjoy a long, skinny menthol cigarette with a martini a couple of times a year.

Apparently I'm going to have to learn to make a martini at home - and then hope my neighbors (the ones with the pool, who throw the ball up against the fence, and sometimes over the fence, and whose kids squeal and splash sometimes till 2 am) don't get a whiff of my smoke - lest they be offended.

I can't wait till they start in on alcohol...

 

[ChristineES]

I can't wait till they start in on alcohol...

Trust me, it is possible. "You can't drink, I am AA and your drinking is causing me to want alcohol" or "You can't drink, your kids and other people's kids will see you do and want to do it, too". I don't even drink myself, but statements above would dismay me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nanny states - OUT OF CONTROL. And like I said, I'm not even a smoker - though I do enjoy a long, skinny menthol cigarette with a martini a couple of times a year.

Do you consider all workplace safety rules to be examples of a "nanny state", or only the ones that deal with hazards that you don't mind so much?

 

[Rakhel]

Trust me, it is possible. "You can't drink, I am AA and your drinking is causing me to want alcohol" or "You can't drink, your kids and other people's kids will see you do and want to do it, too". I don't even drink myself, but statements above would dismay me.

They tried that, remember? Prohibition? look how well that worked.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

True... My point is to say that if someone is smoking in their house and the smoke enters your house and offends you then should that be illegal?

Well... yes, just as it's illegal for you to have your dog take a dump on my lawn. I don't expect the police to call out the major crime squad for either one, but I think that both things cross the line. At the very least, in either case, in a perfect world, you could go to your neighbor and say "hey - I'd appreciate if you stopped doing that" and your neighbor would oblige.

There are much worse offenses in the world, but I'd count it as a bigger deal if my neighbor blew smoke into my house than if he parked his car on the street in front of my house and it dripped a bit of oil. Seeing how the latter is already illegal here, I don't see how it's really moving the bar to prohibit the former in the same sort of way.

 

[ChristineES]

I think we have to keep in mind that there is a world of difference between someone deliberately blowing smoke in your face and smoke entering someone else's house from a distance. There are things you just have to deal with in this world, because you honestly can't control anyone else's actions- just your own.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Fine, but return the favor and stay away from me.

Fair enough.

 

[Magic Man]

Here in California, smoking is banned everywhere except outside and in one's own home. They are even trying to make smoking illegal in a person's own home if they have children. I don't think we all need a bunch of babysitters. I don't smoke at all, but we have to think what is next: Maybe lawmakers will make it illegal to give your children candy or make McDonald's illegal. Pet stores are already being made illegal in San Francisco.
Honestly, do we really need a bunch of politicians and such breathing down our necks and telling us all what to do? I am an adult, and like all other adults, I want to be treated like one.

Should we allow a parent to beat their children or starve them or keep them locked up in a closet for days? We all want to be treated like adults. That's not the question. The question is what's unacceptable to do to a child. We don't allow children under 18 to smoke. We allow children under 18 to eat candy and McDonald's. There's a reason for that.

It boils down to the fact that you can raise your kids however you want within certain rules. As mentioned, there are certain things you can't legally do to your children. Why shouldn't smoking in an enclosed space with them be one of those things? Just because it's been accepted for so long? Beating your wife was accepted for a long time, too.

Note: Just to make it obvious, I'm not saying smoking in an enclosed space with kids is on the same level as beating your wife.

 

[Magic Man]

I didn't miss your point. I just didn't buy it.

I wouldn't want to work around smokers all day. I also wouldn't want to work in the oilfield all day. Both jobs would carry some unavoidable risks and dangers.

It's not the same level of risk as handling 132,000 volts of electricity though - not by a long shot.

The difference is the dangers involved in dealing with high voltage or oilfields are inherent to the work being done. You can be a server at a restaurant without the risk of dealing with smoke. You can't work with high voltage without the risk of geting electrocuted.

 

[ChristineES]

Should we allow a parent to beat their children or starve them or keep them locked up in a closet for days? We all want to be treated like adults. That's not the question. The question is what's unacceptable to do to a child. We don't allow children under 18 to smoke. We allow children under 18 to eat candy and McDonald's. There's a reason for that.

It boils down to the fact that you can raise your kids however you want within certain rules. As mentioned, there are certain things you can't legally do to your children. Why shouldn't smoking in an enclosed space with them be one of those things? Just because it's been accepted for so long? Beating your wife was accepted for a long time, too.

Note: Just to make it obvious, I'm not saying smoking in an enclosed space with kids is on the same level as beating your wife.

What the heck are you talking about? What about feeding your kid junk food? Should we ban parents from giving their kids cookies? How about drinking. Should parents be banned from drinking in the presence of their children?
It boils down to this: If we take away kids from any parent who does someone else believes is harmful, then 90% of children would be taken away from their parents. Honestly, you can't just go around and tell people what to do in their own home when that something is NOT against the law. That, in my view, would even be more harmful than smoking around their kids. (that said, I wouldn't let anyone smoke in my house when my children were little, they had to go out on our balcony of our apartment and later on the porch of our mobile home and neither my husband or I smoke).

 

[Me Myself]

Should we allow a parent to beat their children or starve them or keep them locked up in a closet for days? We all want to be treated like adults. That's not the question. The question is what's unacceptable to do to a child. We don't allow children under 18 to smoke. We allow children under 18 to eat candy and McDonald's. There's a reason for that.

Better them get fat and uggly teeth?

It boils down to the fact that you can raise your kids however you want within certain rules. As mentioned, there are certain things you can't legally do to your children. Why shouldn't smoking in an enclosed space with them be one of those things? Just because it's been accepted for so long? Beating your wife was accepted for a long time, too.

Note: Just to make it obvious, I'm not saying smoking in an enclosed space with kids is on the same level as beating your wife.

I do think parents shouldn´t make their kids passive smokers. Is not the same to drink in front of your kids because they won´t get alcohol in THEIR system because YOU are drinking, but they do get smoke on their system when you are smoking.

So yeah, I definetly see the point.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Honestly, you can't just go around and tell people what to do in their own home when that something is NOT against the law. That, in my view, would even be more harmful than smoking around their kids.

It's legal to buy paint - heck, KIDS can buy it legally - and in most places, there's nothing illegal about huffing it. Am I wrong to say that parents shouldn't do this around kids?

I don't think the "it's a legal product" argument really holds water.

 

[Manahel.Fatima]

Wel when ever we do travel and people do smoke then problem starts but here an easy solution buy a mask and enjoy healthy breath.

 

[ChristineES]

It's legal to buy paint - heck, KIDS can buy it legally - and in most places, there's nothing illegal about huffing it. Am I wrong to say that parents shouldn't do this around kids?

I don't think the "it's a legal product" argument really holds water.

That's not the same thing, at least the way I see it. All I am saying that if you made something like smoking in your house illegal, it would be almost impossible to enforce the law. When I was a little child, friends of the family would give me little sips of beer- which is totally illegal- but how would anyone know about this? I agree it is harmful to smoke around little children, but our jails are already overflowing with people who beat their children (which is a lot worse than smoking around them) and with people who molest little babies (which is even worse). Being overweight is also harmful to children, but is making it illegal for parents to have overweight children really the answer? I think the key would be education- and I know how hard it is to teach some people things already, but I don't know of any other way.
I just don't want there to be a lot of laws that are impossible to enforce and I don't want someone telling me how to raise my kids. Smoking first, then what? It will always be something new that they want to stop.

 

[Kathryn]

Christine, no pun intended but I think we're wasting our breath. And you and I aren't even smokers!

Prohibition doesn't work. It's a waste of time and money and resources.

I think the example of feeding kids terrible food is a very valid example. How many times have we seen parents feeding overweight kids McDonalds? Certainly that's at LEAST as harmful as second hand smoke. What about when we see a toddler with rotten teeth sucking on a bottle filled with KoolAid? What about that mother slapping the hand of her seven year old who won't stop touching merchandise in a store? Some people consider any physical punishment to be abuse - and maybe it is. What about homeschooled kids who are outside playing in the pool all Tuesday afternoon during the school year - is their education being neglected? What about those parents who force their child to wear a yamulke or a veil or "pentecostal hair" to a public school, even when they are ridiculed by their peers?

The Taliban doesn't allow smoking either. Think about it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's not the same thing, at least the way I see it. All I am saying that if you made something like smoking in your house illegal, it would be almost impossible to enforce the law. When I was a little child, friends of the family would give me little sips of beer- which is totally illegal- but how would anyone know about this?

Hmm. As long as this happened in a private home with your parents' okay, it wouldn't be illegal here at all.

I agree it is harmful to smoke around little children, but our jails are already overflowing with people who beat their children (which is a lot worse than smoking around them) and with people who molest little babies (which is even worse).

And I'm certainly not suggesting jail time for smoking around children, so I'm not sure what the state of the jails has to do with anything.

Being overweight is also harmful to children, but is making it illegal for parents to have overweight children really the answer? I think the key would be education- and I know how hard it is to teach some people things already, but I don't know of any other way.

There's a big difference I see between nutrition and smoking around kids: you have to feed your kids. People aren't perfect, so we don't expect parents to do this perfectly. The normal standard for duty of care is the "reasonable person"; is it reasonable to expect a parent to be up to date on all the latest nutrition research and follow it to the letter? Heck - is it reasonable to expect that every parent will be able to afford to follow the government's food guide?

OTOH, the harm that comes from second-hand smoke isn't the product of doing some necessary thing in a less-than-perfect way. There's nothing necessary about smoking, and even for a smoker, there's nothing necessary about smoking around kids.

I just don't want there to be a lot of laws that are impossible to enforce and I don't want someone telling me how to raise my kids. Smoking first, then what? It will always be something new that they want to stop.

Well, I don't see this as any harder to enforce than, say, child abuse laws. I also don't think it has to be enforced with cops busting down doors. For instance, in custody proceedings, if one parent smokes around the kids and the other doesn't, I think it's completely appropriate for this to be factored into the judge's decision about which parent can provide a better home for the kids.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think I should add that I don't think that banning smoking around children is really "telling you how to raise your kids." I've never heard of anyone who uses smoking as part of their parenting approach ("I'll keep smoking around you until you finish your homework, Billy"... maybe); it's something that some parents do, but that doesn't automatically make it part of "how you raise your kids."