So God gives you a free pass...

[Tiberius]

I mean God may never punish me...but mankind would.

*Sigh* I think you need to read the OP again.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

*Sigh* I think you need to read the OP again.

Why the sigh?

I Did read the Op

God said "you would never be punished, in this life or the next" I assumed that God would never punish you (which according to the Bible God does punish in this life as well [usually by causing death]). Or are you saying that God will also intervene to keep the other will of people from attacking you?

 

[nazz]

Honestly, you wasted a post. I've heard these claims before, and without evidence to back them up, such claims are meaningless.

I see evidence everywhere. Anytime any person anywhere acts in the name of a god. Are you seriously denying this happens? So the guys who drove planes into the WTC were just having a little fun?

 

[nazz]

I do not deny their existence "as such".
I merely have not seen anything that indicates they exist any more than "as such".

That's perfectly fine by me.

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

Let's say that one day, God comes down and says to you, "Look, I like you, so I'm going to give you a free pass to Heaven. You can do whatever you want, and you'll never be punished for it. Not in this life, not after you die. No matter what you do, you are guaranteed to get into Heaven." And he also proves to you beyond any doubt that he is God. So for the purposes of this thread, take it that it is actually God who is giving you this, not Satan in disguise or anything.

So, if you were given this assurance by God, would you go out and become a killer, thief, rapist, etc?

Greetings, Tiberius,

Nothing personal but I think that this is a moot question because God (by Whom I mean the God called in the Bible, Jah) would never do anything like that. That sounds more like the way that the Adversary (Satan) operates.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[Benoni]

Baloney! You continue to post verses that do not support what you are claiming.


The Bible does NOT say ALL will be saved!


It says just the opposite!



*

The Bible tells us over and over all will be saved. But you are far to religious to dig deeper. You did not refute one word I said. You ran from the issue

 

[Tiberius]

Greetings, Tiberius,

Nothing personal but I think that this is a moot question because God (by Whom I mean the God called in the Bible, Jah) would never do anything like that. That sounds more like the way that the Adversary (Satan) operates.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

*coughabrahamcough*

 

[Tiberius]

I see evidence everywhere. Anytime any person anywhere acts in the name of a god. Are you seriously denying this happens? So the guys who drove planes into the WTC were just having a little fun?

And if I act in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, does that mean Pastafarianism is correct? The fact that people take actions in the name of some deity does not show that the particular deity they invoke exists. it just shows that they believe it exists.

You really need to learn the difference between believing a thing exists and the thing really existing.

 

[Tiberius]

If so,

-Than of course I'll become a killer, but first of all I'll like to kill myself rather than anybody else, because very well I know that am guaranteed an heaven after my death.

- Than of course I'll become a thief, but I'll like to thieve my own life rather than anything else because very well I know that am guaranteed an heaven after my death.

- Than of course I'll become a rapist, but first of all I'll like to rape a lioness when she's alone in the jungle or somewhere else, rather than any innocent, because very well I know that lioness will put me to death when I'll try to rape her, and finally I'll get an heaven after my death

Do you think am a fool who will miss the heaven for so many years ? tell me.

Why not go out and nobly sacrifice yourself today if you're so eager to get into heaven? Technically, reckless self endangerment isn't suicide.

 

[Tiberius]

Why the sigh?

I Did read the Op

God said "you would never be punished, in this life or the next" I assumed that God would never punish you (which according to the Bible God does punish in this life as well [usually by causing death]). Or are you saying that God will also intervene to keep the other will of people from attacking you?

The OP says you will not receive any punishment. Since I did not place any limitations on this, I thought it was clear that it meant you would receive any punishment at all from any source.

 

[Tiberius]

Before going to that decision, I think, that you need to read my reply to your OP

I don't see how what you said applies to morality.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The OP says you will not receive any punishment. Since I did not place any limitations on this, I thought it was clear that it meant you would receive any punishment at all from any source.

Ah, I assumed that it was any punishment from God, not any punishment in general.

I would still edge on the side of caution merely because I'm paranoid and God has a rather interesting sense of humor.

 

[nazz]

And if I act in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, does that mean Pastafarianism is correct? The fact that people take actions in the name of some deity does not show that the particular deity they invoke exists. it just shows that they believe it exists.

You really need to learn the difference between believing a thing exists and the thing really existing.

No, you need to learn the difference between subjective and objective realities.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I personally admit that I would became a bit of a maniac if given this proposal. I would most likely try to benefit mankind by ridding it of as many politicians as possible haha!

I may also create a secret society dedicated to the kidnapping and spanking of females I find worthy of a good English style thrashing(starting with Hillary Clinton).

Being serious though I find it almost dishonest for anyone to say that he or she would remain a normal civilized person if they were given a free pass by god himself. It is utter fantasy and false moral certainty of anyone(unless Mr. Rogers) to say that they will not act upon impulse instead of civility.

A free pass to an eternal paradise? UNCONDITIONAL! If I acquired this thing all I could say is that all of you guys may end up seeing me on CNN for doing something utterly ridiculous
I admit that there are many people like myself who are surprisingly passive and uninterested in bothering people. I myself have no commitment to be overly involved in the lives of others. I do not suppress my urge to fight back if pushed I just simply do not care because it is too much of a hassle. To actually make me engage in destructive or negative behavior would require an extreme emotional push. I am not saying that I will not become 5 times as much of a jerk though if given such a gift from god though

 

[McBell]

I personally admit that I would became a bit of a maniac if given this proposal. I would most likely try to benefit mankind by ridding it of as many politicians as possible haha!

I may also create a secret society dedicated to the kidnapping and spanking of females I find worthy of a good English style thrashing(starting with Hillary Clinton).

Being serious though I find it almost dishonest for anyone to say that he or she would remain a normal civilized person if they were given a free pass by god himself. It is utter fantasy and false moral certainty of anyone(unless Mr. Rogers) to say that they will not act upon impulse instead of civility.

A free pass to an eternal paradise? UNCONDITIONAL! If I acquired this thing all I could say is that all of you guys may end up seeing me on CNN for doing something utterly ridiculous

Define "normal"
Define "civilized"

What makes you think that people do not act upon impulse?
You seem to be saying that raping, murdering, etc. are par the norm and it is only the fear of punishment that keeps people "civil".

 

[Sha'irullah]

Define "normal"
Define "civilized"

What makes you think that people do not act upon impulse?
You seem to be saying that raping, murdering, etc. are par the norm and it is only the fear of punishment that keeps people "civil".

I have never stated that fear of punishment makes us normal. Although it does apply for many people like Christians and others theists. If a person was given such a gift by god then he or she would be aware that there actually is a heaven or hell which is something you entirely skipped.

If you are an atheist and were given this gift by god then you could no longer call yourself an atheist obviously.

The issue is that if we are given a reward such as ETERNAL PARADISE it has a potential to make us live with less regard for others because it brings about something I see occur in human society far to often which is egoism and greed.

Hell does not make us civilized nor does heaven. Heaven can make us uncivilized though if the believer thinks he has a free ticket to heaven, look at republicans and their disregard for the earth because they think it is pointless since Jesus will be coming back to lift them up to heaven.

Also the definitions for civilized and normal are obvious and I do not need to explain them to you. Look around yourself and you know what normal is. Civility is also found within a civilization. All you need to know is the country I live in and you can already guess what the definition of normal/civilized is.

 

[McBell]

I have never stated that fear of punishment makes us normal.

Never said you did.

Although it does apply for many people like Christians and others theists.

Seems to go back to the definition you have not provided for "normal"...

If a person was given such a gift by god then he or she would be aware that there actually is a heaven or hell which is something you entirely skipped.

Because it is completely irrelevant to my questions...

If you are an atheist and were given this gift by god then you could no longer call yourself an atheist obviously.

Says who?
You?

Don't get me wrong, i agree that most atheists will stop being atheist.
However, there will be many who will not be.

The issue is that if we are given a reward such as ETERNAL PARADISE it has a potential to make us live with less regard for others because it brings about something I see occur in human society far to often which is egoism and greed.

I can agree that such a free pass with allow some people to act more how they always wanted to act, do things they always wanted to do, etc. but don't because they fear punishment.

However, i suspect that it is not as "normal" (i hope I am using the word consistent with your definition) as you portray it.

Hell does not make us civilized nor does heaven. Heaven can make us uncivilized though if the believer thinks he has a free ticket to heaven, look at republicans and their disregard for the earth because they think it is pointless since Jesus will be coming back to lift them up to heaven.

Make up your mind.
Either heaven and or hell does or it does not make us civilized/uncivilized.

Also the definitions for civilized and normal are obvious and I do not need to explain them to you.

Based upon the quote from which I asked to define the terms I would say you have a different understanding of both "normal" and Civil" than i have.

Thus the reason I asked you to define them.

Look around yourself and you know what normal is. Civility is also found within a civilization. All you need to know is the country I live in and you can already guess what the definition of normal/civilized is.

If i wanted to make guesses as to how you define the terms, I would not have bothered asking you to define the terms.

If you cannot or will not define them, so be it, but seeing as it is obvious that your definitions differ from mine...

 

[Sha'irullah]

Never said you did.


Seems to go back to the definition you have not provided for "normal"...


Because it is completely irrelevant to my questions...


Says who?
You?

Don't get me wrong, i agree that most atheists will stop being atheist.
However, there will be many who will not be.


I can agree that such a free pass with allow some people to act more how they always wanted to act, do things they always wanted to do, etc. but don't because they fear punishment.

However, i suspect that it is not as "normal" (i hope I am using the word consistent with your definition) as you portray it.


Make up your mind.
Either heaven and or hell does or it does not make us civilized/uncivilized.


Based upon the quote from which I asked to define the terms I would say you have a different understanding of both "normal" and Civil" than i have.

Thus the reason I asked you to define them.



If i wanted to make guesses as to how you define the terms, I would not have bothered asking you to define the terms.

If you cannot or will not define them, so be it, but seeing as it is obvious that your definitions differ from mine...

Everything else you said was meaningless in most aspects but if you wish to know where I extract the definitions of normal and civilized I recommend you to open a dictionary.

Both words can differ given a different culture or location....

Civilized - 1. Bring (a place or people) to a stage of social, cultural, and moral development considered to be more advanced

2. Polite and well-mannered

Normal - 1. Conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected



When an argument usually falls down to semantics I do not participate in it. I have said this countless times before and if you are relying on semantics then I will cease the debate.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
Just to clarify, I have brought this issue up MANY times. This is my personal pet peeve

I do have a daft conclusion about as to why you are arguing with me.
You probably thought I was some sort of theist who held belief in heaven or hell and the necessity of their existence. You keep changing and contradicting your argument points that I cannot understand your reasoning.

 

[Curious George]

I personally admit that I would became a bit of a maniac if given this proposal. I would most likely try to benefit mankind by ridding it of as many politicians as possible haha!

I may also create a secret society dedicated to the kidnapping and spanking of females I find worthy of a good English style thrashing(starting with Hillary Clinton).

Being serious though I find it almost dishonest for anyone to say that he or she would remain a normal civilized person if they were given a free pass by god himself. It is utter fantasy and false moral certainty of anyone(unless Mr. Rogers) to say that they will not act upon impulse instead of civility.

A free pass to an eternal paradise? UNCONDITIONAL! If I acquired this thing all I could say is that all of you guys may end up seeing me on CNN for doing something utterly ridiculous
I admit that there are many people like myself who are surprisingly passive and uninterested in bothering people. I myself have no commitment to be overly involved in the lives of others. I do not suppress my urge to fight back if pushed I just simply do not care because it is too much of a hassle. To actually make me engage in destructive or negative behavior would require an extreme emotional push. I am not saying that I will not become 5 times as much of a jerk though if given such a gift from god though

I don't see myself as having any false sense of morality. I would not kill, I would not rape, I would not steal etc. I would imagine a drastic change in my life. I would become more apathetic to worldly affairs. I would travel and share my testimony for what it was worth. If there is a God and a Heaven and after this life I will be in that Heaven, there is not much point in anything else.

 

[chinu]

Why not go out and nobly sacrifice yourself today if you're so eager to get into heaven?

Because the moral always comes from God