Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
That wasn't ridicule, it was honest assessment, and contained a great deal of opinion.
Take your own advice: read the words.
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So... is God incompetent or uncaring? Which of the two?
- Thread starter ryanam
- Start date
Take your own advice: read the words.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i would suppose the growth that would emerge from either is to find a way to avoid suffering
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Perhaps it is, but how does it fit into the argument? If I experience growth as a result of suffering (and while one wouldn't ask for the trauma that was visited upon them, they feel that they have gained as a result of it) does such growth have relevance to this discussion?
You're right... it normally doesn't get to me that much but when people write completely pointless posts for no reason other than to point out people's knowledge (or lack thereof) AND consider themselves some kind of respected member...
I'm done though... I've had a plethora of answers ranging from "both" to me having to remove my conciousness from my own body to find the answer to it being a question which displays my lack of knowledge on the subject. As if that wasn't the WHOLE point in question asking in the first place.
No direct answers though which was, pretty much, what I was expecting.
Tiny thought experiment which reminded me why I left in the first place. The people who seem to talk so much white noise about how they THINK the world works are, invariably the one's with the most prominent superiority complexes with regards to their own beliefs vs. anyone elses.
Let's not forget that I haven't asserted any kind of knowledge of this subject... didn't really take a rocket scientist to work that out considering I was asking the question in order to gain knowledge in the very first place.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Sure. We are individuals, but not separate individuals. We're made out of the same, basic stuff as moss, planets, stars, electricity, dust, and zebras. We're all interconnected with the universe. When we begin to separate ourselves from that relationship, we enter the realm of self-centeredness.
waitasec
Veteran Member
interesting way of looking at it.
i guess it just depends on the person and what they learn from it.
growth from suffering is subjective, in fact some retreat and repeat the same mistakes that would cause more needless suffering.
i don't know if i answered your question though...
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
But thanks for trying
I obviously do not have an answer. I am intrigued by the question though.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Bye, then.
Really? I can see plenty of answers to your posts.
Whether or not you accept them as answers is a different story, though.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
I cannot speak for everyone else, however, personally speaking your statement contradicted each other. In the OP you come to a conclusion of what God might be, there were 2 choices. Then latter you said to me you seek understanding, that seems rather contradictory doesn't it when at first you already came to a conclusion?
However, if your conclusion was based on what you know and you want to broaden your understanding and possibly change your view then like I said, I can post some material for you to read.
If you contradict yourself in the way that you did, people don't take you serious. Doesn't matter than you are a new guy or whatever, even if I did that no one would bother with me.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
You want education? Fine. Here's a few basics:
1) "God" is not limited to Christianity, nor even theism proper. You'll find this forum to be a damn sight more diverse than that - to use myself as an example, I'm a process theologian panentheist with shades of henotheism. RF contains many such minority faithful, and you'll find we get supremely annoyed when people criticize us for beliefs we don't hold.
2) Even among classical theists, very few believers hold God to be some sort of Superman who serves no purpose but to make sure our ice cream isn't drippy. They exist of course, but they're like kindergarteners trying to tackle Shakespeare before mastering the alphabet - cute, but not worth heeding.
3) Theodicy is a vast and subtle topic, rarely intuitive. When done well, it attempts to set aside human wishful thinking and see things from God's perspective.
I didn't give one. My conclusion is irrelevant as I don't subscribe to the supernatural. Everything that occurs, whether it be death, birth, happiness, sadness is the direct result of an explainable process.
The reason people suffer, for me, isn't a question worth answering. It's like asking why mountains exist. We know that they exist and we understand the geological process they go through but to ask about their meaning? Their purpose?
People suffer because of the observable life cycle. This involves good, evil, accident and purposeful occurrence. Children die every day because of the actions of other people, the life cycles of viruses, inability to treat, coincidence, murder by concious humans and an almost infinite number of other fully explainable events. It doesn't require supernatural intervention (or non-intervention) to be possible.
Continuing to spew mind-made theories about us all being one conciousness or quoting directly from whatever book you have to live your life by is distracting people from solutions.
That's my opinion and I'll be happy to answer directly, and to the point without insulting, quoting or literally asking you to go read another book for the answers.
I wasn't looking for education thanks. Just opinion. What you say isn't factual, as much as you obviously think it is.
I don't remember criticizing YOU for a belief that you don't hold, or anyone for that matter. You can see the OP from the thread list... if you don't believe it or don't have an opinion on that specific belief, don't even enter.
You just wrote about the apparent views classical theist's take on a personal god and another bit about seeing things from god's perspective.
You're talking about knowing god to the level of his 'perspective'. Can you explain how this is done?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Solutions to what?
Koldo
Outstanding Member
It is unimportant unless one can show this growth is relevant.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
That's going to strictly depend on the attributes this god possesses.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Relevant to whom? The person suffering? Or you and I?
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Relevant to the argument being made.
Of course it is.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
Why do people believe suffering and death are bad things?