So it looks like we may be going into Syria (?)

[Bismillah]

Just because you say something doesn't make it true, no matter how badly you want it to.

I don't badly want anything to be true, I'm not some sick person manipulating death and suffering for my own political convenience. Have you read any basic human rights report on Syria? It takes one simple search

 

[MD]

I don't badly want anything to be true, I'm not some sick person manipulating death and suffering for my own political convenience. Have you read any basic human rights report on Syria? It takes one simple search

I have. There were 9 human rights violations committed in Syria in the last year, according to the UN. According to the UN 8 of those were by Assad and 1 was by the rebels. 5 years ago I would have believed that, but now that I've learned the UN isnt a neutral party and I have to think there's more going on than meets the eye. A lot of the human rights atrocities the rebels have committed are being covered up by the media.

There is a reason why the minorities are pro Assad. The rebels are mostly Al-qaeda, nuff said.

 

[Bismillah]

I have. There were 9 human rights violations committed in Syria in the last year, according to the UN. According to the UN 8 of those were by Assad and 1 was by the rebels. 5 years ago I would have believed that, but now that I've learned the UN isnt a neutral party and I have to think there's more going on than meets the eye.

Ah yes Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the U.N commission are all biased and serve a rebel cause. Are you serious? That is the most pitiful bull I have had the misfortune to read all day.

I don't know what you are even talking about foreign influences among the Syrian rebels has been reported innumerable times. It would take a liar to say that the rebels have been granted some type of journalistic immunity.

Where do you get your unbiased new from? RT, Putin, and interviews with Assad?

 

[MD]

Ah yes Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the U.N commission are all biased and serve a rebel cause. Are you serious? That is the most pitiful bull I have had the misfortune to read all day.

I don't know what you are even talking about foreign influences among the Syrian rebels has been reported innumerable times. It would take a liar to say that the rebels have been granted some type of journalistic immunity.

Where do you get your unbiased new from? RT, Putin, and interviews with Assad?

First off a lot of these atrocities are simply reported. There's very little proof to corroborate it, especially in a time of war. So obviously the rebels will pander to the liberal institutions in the west and report any atrocities they find which cannot really be strongly corroborated. The liberal western media gets an orgasm whenever they hear of revolutions and rebels, romanticizing them regardless of their views. It's part of the culture and history of the west itself.

There have been several accounts from Christians in the civil war which were ignored. Not to mention the Kurds, ****tes and druze. Why do you think the Kurds are targeted? Because they are secular. Why did the Christians go from being neutral to being pro assad? And the druze? And some leftist alawites?

The western media has highlighted a few things about the rebels which is why there was a lot of apprehension with Obama's war plans. But a lot has been ignored. For example a month ago hundreds of Kurdish civilans were massacred in a village by the 'rebels'. This was why the Kurdish faction broke off from the rebels and reached out to the Iraqi kurdish region for supplies and weapons.

If you think the Western Media is some sort of honest beacon of truth then you've got some extra reading to do.

 

[Bismillah]

The liberal western media gets an orgasm whenever they hear of revolutions and rebels, romanticizing them regardless of their views. It's part of the culture and history of the west itself.

Ah yes. Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the U.N is liberal Western propaganda. What utter rubbish.

For the benefit for anyone who is not so morally bankrupt that they come to support a dictator responsible for the deaths of thousands of people to continue his familial dynasty here are the established facts. From reputable non-biased sources, idiots who consider non-profit international entities created to monitor human rights cases as liberal media need not respond. This is what you support, I wonder how far gone a person would be to compromise their humanity to support such a monster. Lanatallah on Bashar and his supporters.

The U.N has stated that the regime is responsible for eight massacres the rebels are behind one.

Human Rights Watch has stated that the Syrian government is the likely culprit for the chemical weapons attack.

Amnesty International has reported that the Syrian army does not attempt to differentiate between rebels and civilians, often killing a number of innocents.[540] The Syrian Arab Army has also been accused of not differentiating between rebels and civilians in their air attacks.[541]

In June 2013, a prison was captured by the Free Syrian Army, revealing ongoing torture of political prisoners.[542]

The vast majority of human rights violations documented in Syria, including numerous international crimes, have been committed by the Syrian military and security forces and their allied militia.[543][544][545]:4[140]:10[546]:1[547]:20 The violations are considered by many to be so serious, deliberate, and systematic as to constitute crimes against humanity[140]:7[423]:5[547]:18–20[548] and war crimes.[140]

According to Human Rights Watch, the Assad government has created an "archipelago of torture centers".[549]:1 A key role in the repression, and particularly torture, is played by the mukhabarat: the Department of Military Intelligence, the Political Security Directorate, the General Intelligence Directorate, and the Air Force Intelligence Directorate.[423]:9[549]:1, 35 The Syrian army is reported by rights groups to deliberately target children and civilians.[550][551] Wounded civilians who arrive at hospitals are also tortured if it is believed they come from anti-Assad areas.[552]

Since the beginning of the conflict in March 2011, the Syrian army and police had repeatedly fired live ammunition on peaceful protesters[553] [554] [555] culminating to approximately 1000 protester deaths by 2012.[556] The deadliest attack on protesters occurred on 1 August 2011, when the Syrian army was sent to Hama to quell growing protests there, killing over 150 in an event news media termed the "Ramadan massacre".[557][558]

The Syrian army have many times burned alive and buried alive their military and civilian detainees, including children.[559][560][561]

The Syrian government uses food deprivation as a weapon of war.[563] The Syrian army enforces food-blockades on rebel controlled districts, particularly that of the city of Homs, where food and medicine has to be smuggled.[564][565] In Syrian government controlled areas, houses of people suspected to be anti-Assad are bulldozed as collective punishment.[566]

Several women's-rights organizations have accused the Syrian army of using rape as a weapon of war, saying that the abuse is widespread.[567][568] Women in the Syrian government's prisons are repeatedly raped and beaten, and are many times sexually tortured.[567][569] On 14 January 2013, the International Rescue Committee released a report stating many refugees flee Syria due to a widespread fear of rape. The report also spoke of the systematic targeting of health care workers, and the shooting of engineers seeking to maintain the sanitation and water infrastructure of Aleppo.[570]

Throughout the war the Syrian government and Shabiha committed numerous massacres, with the deadliest ones being the Houla massacre, the Khalidya massacre, the Tremseh Massacre, the Khan Sheikhoun massacre, the Aleppo massacre, the Darraya massacre, and the Baniyas and Bayda massacres.[571] Each time the Syrian government blames "terrorists" for the massacre, but denies independent observers access to investigate. UN observers who have attempted to reach massacre sites were fired upon by the Syrian army.[572][573]

After massacres of Sunni families in the largely Alawite populated coast of Syria, the Syrian army has been accused by observers and other countries of committing genocide.[574] [575] Starting in 2013, widespread fear and concerns of ethnic cleansing emerged among the Sunni community of the government controlled Tartus Governorate.[576]

The UNHRC has said "The violations and abuses committed by anti-government armed groups did not, however, reach the intensity and scale of those committed by government forces and affiliated militia.[1]"

 

[MD]

Ah yes. Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the U.N is liberal Western propaganda. What utter rubbish.

For the benefit for anyone who is not so morally bankrupt that they come to support a dictator responsible for the deaths of thousands of people to continue his familial dynasty here are the established facts. From reputable non-biased sources, idiots who consider non-profit international entities created to monitor human rights cases as liberal media need not respond. This is what you support, I wonder how far gone a person would be to compromise their humanity to support such a monster. Lanatallah on Bashar and his supporters.

You are the fool if you think that this has anything to do with 'morality'. This war like all wars have to do with economics and politics. You are an even bigger idiot if you think that Assad is solely responsible for everything. Let me guess you think there's no persecution of christians in egypt either?

There's no such thing as 'non biased' source. I would never support salafist rebels over a secular dictator and most people wouldn't either. I never said Assad was a saint, infact he is evil. But he is the lesser evil compared to the salafist rebels.

450 Kurds Including 120 Children Killed in Syria Precipitates International Concern (Video)

Jabhat al-Nusra Front attacked Tal Abyad town near the Turkish border on Monday killing 330 women and elderly and 120 children, according to Iranian Al-Alam TV channel.

http://www.aina.org/news/20120329133601.htm


http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/nun-reveals-rebel-atrocities-in-syria/


“What I want to ask first of all is how the international community can ignore the brutal killing spree in Latakia on Laylat al-Qadr early in the morning of Aug. 5, an attack that affected more than 500 people, including children, women and the elderly. They were all slaughtered. The atrocities committed exceed any scale. But there was close to nothing about it in the international mass media.”

Rights groups: Syrian rebels often kill captives

Syrians behead Christians for helping military, as CIA ships in arms - Washington Times

Syria Christian 'made to convert at gunpoint'

"Good morning, Rashrush," a voice answered, using her nickname. "We are from the Free Syrian Army. Do you know your fiance was a member of the shabiha (pro-regime militia) who was carrying weapons, and we have slit his throat.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatla_massacre

"The Hatla massacre was the killing of 60 Shia villagers, including some who were armed, conducted by Syrian rebels in the eastern Syrian village of Hatla, near Deir ez-Zor, on 11 June 2013 during the Syrian civil war. At least 30 of the dead were civilians.[2][3][4] A Kuwaiti Sunni sheikh, who incited sectarian violence against the Syrian government, described the killings as a "slaughter" and applauded it.[1] According to a UN report, 30 people were killed.[5]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqrab_massacre

 

[Bismillah]

You're so duplicitous it's disgusting

Jabhat al-Nusra Front attacked Tal Abyad town near the Turkish border on Monday killing 330 women and elderly and 120 children, according to Iranian Al-Alam TV channel.

Who else confirmed this? No one because these statistics are pushed by Iran's media

“What I want to ask first of all is how the international community can ignore the brutal killing spree in Latakia on Laylat al-Qadr early in the morning of Aug. 5, an attack that affected more than 500 people, including children, women and the elderly. They were all slaughtered. The atrocities committed exceed any scale. But there was close to nothing about it in the international mass media.”

WND? What is their background as international observers? They don't have one but do have a vested interest in pushing a narrative? Weird.

"The Hatla massacre was the killing of 60 Shia villagers, including some who were armed, conducted by Syrian rebels in the eastern Syrian village of Hatla, near Deir ez-Zor, on 11 June 2013 during the Syrian civil war. At least 30 of the dead were civilians.[2][3][4] A Kuwaiti Sunni sheikh, who incited sectarian violence against the Syrian government, described the killings as a "slaughter" and applauded it.[1] According to a UN report, 30 people were killed.[5]"

And this is what? I never said rebels have not committed any human rights violations or massacres. They have. The difference being that the government has perpetrated massacres and violence against civilians on a much greater scale.

The rest are individual videos crying about Christians killed in the conflict. Don't worry if Muslims die, but if on that neck hangs a crucifix the world will stand still. Even if that man self admittedly was an active combatant supplying weapons to the Syrian Arab Army and the bloodthirsty shabiah.

What a petulant post. Assad's war crimes are obvious to all international observers and parties, only a sick man would try and cover them up or support him despite it. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the U.N as "liberal Western propaganda" indeed. The man you support and his regime's atrocities read them again

The U.N has stated that the regime is responsible for eight massacres the rebels are behind one.

Human Rights Watch has stated that the Syrian government is the likely culprit for the chemical weapons attack.

Amnesty International has reported that the Syrian army does not attempt to differentiate between rebels and civilians, often killing a number of innocents.[540] The Syrian Arab Army has also been accused of not differentiating between rebels and civilians in their air attacks.[541]

In June 2013, a prison was captured by the Free Syrian Army, revealing ongoing torture of political prisoners.[542]

The vast majority of human rights violations documented in Syria, including numerous international crimes, have been committed by the Syrian military and security forces and their allied militia.[543][544][545]:4[140]:10[546]:1[547]:20 The violations are considered by many to be so serious, deliberate, and systematic as to constitute crimes against humanity[140]:7[423]:5[547]:18–20[548] and war crimes.[140]

According to Human Rights Watch, the Assad government has created an "archipelago of torture centers".[549]:1 A key role in the repression, and particularly torture, is played by the mukhabarat: the Department of Military Intelligence, the Political Security Directorate, the General Intelligence Directorate, and the Air Force Intelligence Directorate.[423]:9[549]:1, 35 The Syrian army is reported by rights groups to deliberately target children and civilians.[550][551] Wounded civilians who arrive at hospitals are also tortured if it is believed they come from anti-Assad areas.[552]

Since the beginning of the conflict in March 2011, the Syrian army and police had repeatedly fired live ammunition on peaceful protesters[553] [554] [555] culminating to approximately 1000 protester deaths by 2012.[556] The deadliest attack on protesters occurred on 1 August 2011, when the Syrian army was sent to Hama to quell growing protests there, killing over 150 in an event news media termed the "Ramadan massacre".[557][558]

The Syrian army have many times burned alive and buried alive their military and civilian detainees, including children.[559][560][561]

The Syrian government uses food deprivation as a weapon of war.[563] The Syrian army enforces food-blockades on rebel controlled districts, particularly that of the city of Homs, where food and medicine has to be smuggled.[564][565] In Syrian government controlled areas, houses of people suspected to be anti-Assad are bulldozed as collective punishment.[566]

Several women's-rights organizations have accused the Syrian army of using rape as a weapon of war, saying that the abuse is widespread.[567][568] Women in the Syrian government's prisons are repeatedly raped and beaten, and are many times sexually tortured.[567][569] On 14 January 2013, the International Rescue Committee released a report stating many refugees flee Syria due to a widespread fear of rape. The report also spoke of the systematic targeting of health care workers, and the shooting of engineers seeking to maintain the sanitation and water infrastructure of Aleppo.[570]

Throughout the war the Syrian government and Shabiha committed numerous massacres, with the deadliest ones being the Houla massacre, the Khalidya massacre, the Tremseh Massacre, the Khan Sheikhoun massacre, the Aleppo massacre, the Darraya massacre, and the Baniyas and Bayda massacres.[571] Each time the Syrian government blames "terrorists" for the massacre, but denies independent observers access to investigate. UN observers who have attempted to reach massacre sites were fired upon by the Syrian army.[572][573]

After massacres of Sunni families in the largely Alawite populated coast of Syria, the Syrian army has been accused by observers and other countries of committing genocide.[574] [575] Starting in 2013, widespread fear and concerns of ethnic cleansing emerged among the Sunni community of the government controlled Tartus Governorate.[576]

The UNHRC has said "The violations and abuses committed by anti-government armed groups did not, however, reach the intensity and scale of those committed by government forces and affiliated militia.[1]"

 

[Assad91]

Bashar is not the greatest. But I'd fear more for the region if Al Qeada won.

 

[Bismillah]

Bashar is not the greatest. But I'd fear more for the region if Al Qeada won.

Did you read the list I quoted? I am asking for honesty, did you take your time and read each line?

 

[Assad91]

Did you read the list I quoted? I am asking for honesty, did you take your time and read each line?

Yes I did brother.

But with time Al Qaeda has been getting stronger. Recently Al Jazeera reported of a whole FSA brigade switching and giving baya to Al Nusra.

Look, I don't like reading of Muslims death. Sunni or Shia. I also don't like reading of the deaths of Christians, Jews or Athiests.

FSA itself may be secular, but Al Qaeda is growing and with it means their ideology. I can't support that. Not after reading some of the things they've done, Syria and elsewhere.

As I said, Bashar isn't the greatest. But compared to Al Qaeda, he is.

I'd like to see AQ out of the equation as well as all foreign fighters, and a deal made between Assad and the Rebels.

 

[Godobeyer]

Bashar is not the greatest. But I'd fear more for the region if Al Qeada won.

Some others saw he is greatest , i am affraid too about the extrem groups like AlQaeda , take control .

it's just GOOD justification for the west to occupate Syria

 

[metis]

Hey, where's all the boo-birds who were raking Obama over the coals now? Gee, it seems like what he did might just work out. Of course, these same birds would never admit to that, would they?

 

[esmith]

Hey, where's all the boo-birds who were raking Obama over the coals now? Gee, it seems like what he did might just work out. Of course, these same birds would never admit to that, would they?

Not sure where you are coming from on this. Obama lucked into having Russia basically pulling his gonads out of the fire. Let see
1. Assad must go
2. Drawing a Red Line
3. I did not draw a Red Line
4. I'm going to attack Syria
5. No I'm not going to attack Syria unless Congress says it's OK
6. See, I forced the deal to get chemical weapons out of Syria even though there was no military reason for Syria to do so. Gee arn't I smart, and some of you even believe it.

 

[metis]

LOL! And I suppose that some actually "think" that Russia made the offer because they're such nice guys who have America's best interest in their heart.

 

[esmith]

No Putin saw this as an opportunity to improve his standing at home and also show that Russia is still a player in the world and especially in the mid-east. This was a win win move on his part. There was about a zero percent chance that Obama was going to use military action in Syria. The American people didn't want it, the Congress didn't want it and wasn't going to give him permission to do so.

 

[metis]

Putin was undoubtedly very worried about chemical weapons getting into the hands of Chechnyan rebels, which especially could hypothetically happened if we used military force that would undermine Assad enough whereas the rebels could win. Also, Putin well knew that he could lose his naval base there in the Mediterranean, which has long been a problem with the Russian navy having ice-free ports.

So, for both Putin and Obama, it's a win/win situation, which wouldn't have been the case if we had attacked and downgraded Assad's forces. Without the pressure from Obama, there's simply no incentive whatsoever that would have forced Putin to take the actions he did.

 

[esmith]

Putin was undoubtedly very worried about chemical weapons getting into the hands of Chechnyan rebels, which especially could hypothetically happened if we used military force that would undermine Assad enough whereas the rebels could win. Also, Putin well knew that he could lose his naval base there in the Mediterranean, which has long been a problem with the Russian navy having ice-free ports.

What give you any idea that chemical weapons could fall into the hands of Assad opposition? There was almost zero chance that could happen. You still don't seem to understand....there was zero chance that the US would attack. Obama is not about to go against public opinion and no way Congress would give him permission.

So, for both Putin and Obama, it's a win/win situation, which wouldn't have been the case if we had attacked and downgraded Assad's forces. Without the pressure from Obama, there's simply no incentive whatsoever that would have forced Putin to take the actions he did.

What pressure??????

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Rarely has so much incompetency met with so much dumb luck.

Whatever one thinks of the viability of US military retaliation:

• we've strengthened Assad,
• we've strengthened Putin,
• we've demoted 'red lines' to the status of diplomatic discussion points, while
• we've projected an image of confused and vacillating amateurs.

And I'm an Obama supporter (solely by virtue of the fact that Mrs. Clinton failed to get her party's nomination).

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Rarely has so much incompetency met with so much dumb luck.

Whatever one thinks of the viability of US military retaliation:

• we've strengthened Assad,
• we've strengthened Putin,
• we've demoted 'red lines' to the status of diplomatic discussion points, while
• we've projected an image of confused and vacillating amateurs.

And I'm an Obama supporter (solely by virtue of the fact that Mrs. Clinton failed to get her party's nomination).

I agree. For better or worse, that's pretty much what's happened. If I were the PM of Israel, I would make a priority of developing nuclear and other advanced weapons and delivery systems. Mr. Obama has demonstrated, once for all, America's complete unreliability as an ally. In the long run, this is probably good for Israel.

 

[metis]

What give you any idea that chemical weapons could fall into the hands of Assad opposition? There was almost zero chance that could happen. You still don't seem to understand....there was zero chance that the US would attack. Obama is not about to go against public opinion and no way Congress would give him permission.

You really don't understand the situation. If Assad was overthrown by the rebels, Assad loses control over the chemical stockpile scattered in various localities, thus leaving the door wide open for the rebels to take control, and we well know that many of them are affiliated with al-Queda. What is so difficult to understand here? This has been mentioned by quite a few M.E. experts.

Secondly, Obama does not need congressional permission to attack and downgrade Syria's military, and he has previously taken actions that weren't always popular. Plus, there are quite a few Republicans and Democrats that have said he should have attacked, and even though some would have screamed and hollered, nevertheless they would eventually get over it.

Finally, Obama's presidential hero is Lincoln, if one were to follow Obama's actions, they should note that he has used much of the same techniques that Lincoln did. Now, I'm talking about the real Lincoln here and not the fairy-tale "Lincoln" that so many believe it.

Lincoln was a compromiser who tried to encourage others to work out joint solutions-- except when he knew he had to dig in his heels for solidarity's sake. IOW, when backed into a corner, Lincoln would come out fighting. Obama has taken the same approach, sometimes being accused of "leading from behind", but when push-comes-to shove, watch out as I think we're going to see with this CR and debt limit fight.

Anyhow, it's rather obvious you really do not understand what's going on in the M.E. even on the most basic level, so I give up on you-- again.