So Jesus is not God?

[Muffled]

Jews and Muslims don't believe in original sin. In fact, in Islam God forgives Adam and Eve.

So what do they believe? do they believe sin has always existed and since God is the only one who has always exited that sin is part of God's nature? I believe I can say God forbid.

 

[Muffled]

Interesting that you choose to quote a verse that just doesn't fit with the saved by faith theology of most Christians.

I believe you are in error. Christians keep commandment because we are saved by faith. People who are saved by works have to work at keeping his commandments and are not going to be able to do so no matter how hard they try.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I believe then that Irenaeus derived his concept from the writing of Paul. Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man

I believe this is not revelation but simply a derived concept from Genesis. Gen. 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The Trinity is also in the Bible and best laid out by Jesus in John 14.

Go your way in peace.

 

[74x12]

Jews and Muslims don't believe in original sin. In fact, in Islam God forgives Adam and Eve.

Well, I believe God forgave them as well and that they'll be saved. I think Adam was probably the first prophet as well. But pandora's box was already opened. We are born with a sinful nature. We are born prone to sin. That's why we are all mortal; because this sinfulness cannot last. As Jesus said "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". All flesh must eventually die or else be changed; because it is inherently sinful. But through the resurrection we have the power to be changed.

 

[sooda]

So what do they believe? do they believe sin has always existed and since God is the only one who has always exited that sin is part of God's nature? I believe I can say God forbid.

They believe babies are born pure and open to the love of God.

They also don't believe in blood sacrifice or that hell is eternal.

 

[sooda]

Well, I believe God forgave them as well and that they'll be saved. I think Adam was probably the first prophet as well. But pandora's box was already opened. We are born with a sinful nature. We are born prone to sin. That's why we are all mortal; because this sinfulness cannot last. As Jesus said "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". All flesh must eventually die or else be changed; because it is inherently sinful. But through the resurrection we have the power to be changed.

Why do you think we are born with a sinful nature? Who told you that?

 

[sooda]

I believe you are in error. Christians keep commandment because we are saved by faith. People who are saved by works have to work at keeping his commandments and are not going to be able to do so no matter how hard they try.

Do you find it hard to keep the Ten Commandments? I don't. Never have.

 

[74x12]

Why do you think we are born with a sinful nature? Who told you that?

It's self evident.

 

[moorea944]

There is a range of belief about the "Godhead". An adult will allow others to find their own truth.

There shouldnt be any range of believe about the Godhead. That should all ready be totally clear. And it is stated in 1 Cor 11. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. "

God is the head of Christ? Yup!! No trinity there!! If Jesus is co-equal with the Creator, then wouldnt that disrespect Christ? Saying that someone was over him?

Heb 2 tells us that Jesus was like us. And he had to be.

 

[sooda]

Well, I believe God forgave them as well and that they'll be saved. I think Adam was probably the first prophet as well. But pandora's box was already opened. We are born with a sinful nature. We are born prone to sin. That's why we are all mortal; because this sinfulness cannot last. As Jesus said "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". All flesh must eventually die or else be changed; because it is inherently sinful. But through the resurrection we have the power to be changed.

No. We aren't .

 

[sooda]

It's self evident.

So you believe in original sin???

 

[74x12]

So you believe in original sin???

It depends what you mean by that.

No. We aren't .

According to the Bible; we all sin. (Romans 3:23)

 

[Ellen Brown]

There shouldnt be any range of believe about the Godhead. That should all ready be totally clear. And it is stated in 1 Cor 11. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. "

God is the head of Christ? Yup!! No trinity there!! If Jesus is co-equal with the Creator, then wouldnt that disrespect Christ? Saying that someone was over him?

Heb 2 tells us that Jesus was like us. And he had to be.

And those who insist on rigid rules about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit have done the most to prove to me that they don't actually know any of them. They are quick to judge and condemn those who do not march in lockstep with them. Mostly it is about male domination, not God. My Creator can lecture me about things but humans may not.

 

[sooda]

It depends what you mean by that.

According to the Bible; we all sin. (Romans 3:23)

Original sin is the tendency to sin innate in all human beings, held to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall. The concept of original sin was developed in the writings of St. Augustine.

 

[74x12]

Original sin is the tendency to sin innate in all human beings, held to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall. The concept of original sin was developed in the writings of St. Augustine.

Developed in the writings of Augustine? Are you sure about that? Because I find it in the Bible which is much older than Augustine. Let's take Psalm 51 for example.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

So it's easy to point to someone and say they started this; but really if it's obvious from the scriptures; it's obvious.

Like I said, self evident because no one has to teach a child to lie. Children lie because they get caught doing something they know their parents don't want them doing. So they make up a lie.

 

[sooda]

Developed in the writings of Augustine? Are you sure about that? Because I find it in the Bible which is much older than Augustine. Let's take Psalm 51 for example.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

So it's easy to point to someone and say they started this; but really if it's obvious from the scriptures; it's obvious.

Like I said, self evident because no one has to teach a child to lie. Children lie because they get caught doing something they know their parents don't want them doing. So they make up a lie.

Psalm 51:5 – Ezekiel 18:20. The passage reads – “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son...” There is no way that the doctrine of inherited original sin can be true if this passage is also true!

What Does Psalm 51:5 Teach?

 

[74x12]

Psalm 51:5 – Ezekiel 18:20. The passage reads – “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son...” There is no way that the doctrine of inherited original sin can be true if this passage is also true!

What Does Psalm 51:5 Teach?

Why then did God say He visits the iniquities of the fathers to the third and fourth generation? (Exodus 20:5)

There is a difference between guilt and sin. God has not made us guilty for the sins of our fathers; but their weakness/propensity to sin has been passed down to us.

 

[sooda]

Why then did God say He visits the iniquities of the fathers to the third and fourth generation? (Exodus 20:5)

There is a difference between guilt and sin. God has not made us guilty for the sins of our fathers; but their weakness/propensity to sin has been passed down to us.

The term “original sin” deals with Adam’s sin of disobedience in eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and its effects upon the rest of the human race. Original sin can be defined as “that sin and its guilt that we all possess in God’s eyes as a direct result of Adam’s sin in the Garden of Eden.” The doctrine of original sin focuses particularly on its effects on our nature and our standing before God, even before we are old enough to commit conscious sin.

continued

What is original sin?

 

[Ellen Brown]

Original sin is the tendency to sin innate in all human beings, held to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall. The concept of original sin was developed in the writings of St. Augustine.

I was just reading about Saint Augustine. I can remember from my youth, being preached to by old harpies about that, and had not challenged it until later in life when it became clear that the term was simply an effort to blame others for our own mistakes.

 

[9-18-1]

Jesus is not god.

Jesus is a Greek idol worshiped by idol worshipers.

Muhammad serves the same role in Islam: "mercy upon mankind" and too is idol worship.

Any "belief"-based male central figure 'state' that places a man as both infallible and immune from scrutiny is idol worship.

100's of millions are dead over these two idols.