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So Jesus is not God?

moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Ellen Brown said:
And those who insist on rigid rules about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit have done the most to prove to me that they don't actually know any of them. They are quick to judge and condemn those who do not march in lockstep with them. Mostly it is about male domination, not God. My Creator can lecture me about things but humans may not.
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Wow!!!! lol First of all, no one is lecturing or judging you..... And I think the rigid rules come from God, not man.
"Male domination"? Hmmmmm, I'm sensing something else here.... Care to talk about it?
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
moorea944 said:
Wow!!!! lol First of all, no one is lecturing or judging you..... And I think the rigid rules come from God, not man.
"Male domination"? Hmmmmm, I'm sensing something else here.... Care to talk about it?
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God's rigid rules start with Micah 6:8. I'm from an abusive Fundamentalistic Background.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
moorea944 said:
There shouldnt be any range of believe about the Godhead. That should all ready be totally clear. And it is stated in 1 Cor 11. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. "

God is the head of Christ? Yup!! No trinity there!! If Jesus is co-equal with the Creator, then wouldnt that disrespect Christ? Saying that someone was over him?

Heb 2 tells us that Jesus was like us. And he had to be.
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First of all, not everyone accepts the New Testament as inerrant, or even as inspired by God. As a Jew I certainly don't. To me it is on the same level as the Quran or the Vedas. I don't accept that Jesus is God anymore than I accept that Muhammad is a prophet of God. But it's more than that.

Prior to the fourth century, the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus was not altogether nailed down. There were a variety of beliefs. The whole point of the Council of Nicea was whether Arianism was true, and Arians comprised the majority of Christianity at that time. You'll recall that Arianism is the non-Trinitarian belief that Jesus was a created being (JW's are Arian). Arians base their beliefs on the NT as well -- the NT can be interpreted more than one way.
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
First of all, not everyone accepts the New Testament as inerrant, or even as inspired by God. As a Jew I certainly don't. To me it is on the same level as the Quran or the Vedas. I don't accept that Jesus is God anymore than I accept that Muhammad is a prophet of God. But it's more than that.

Prior to the fourth century, the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus was not altogether nailed down. There were a variety of beliefs. The whole point of the Council of Nicea was whether Arianism was true, and Arians comprised the majority of Christianity at that time. You'll recall that Arianism is the non-Trinitarian belief that Jesus was a created being (JW's are Arian). Arians base their beliefs on the NT as well -- the NT can be interpreted more than one way.
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Even when I was just getting into religion in 1974, as I read the Bible, I never agreed with the Trinity Model. God, G_d, Allah SWT being in the heavens, and then Jesus, Prophet or Son, makes no difference to me. I've always been confused about the identity of the Holy Spirit. It seems that Jesus first mentions him as a messenger perhaps. So, when I am spoken to, as I waken in the early hours, is it G_d, the Holy Spirit, or one of the Navajo Spirits? Perhaps it is most important that I seek to do goodness and mercy and humbly seek to follow the Creator?
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Ellen Brown said:
So, when I am spoken to, as I waken in the early hours, is it G_d, the Holy Spirit, or one of the Navajo Spirits? Perhaps it is most important that I seek to do goodness and mercy and humbly seek to follow the Creator?
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In Judaism we simply call those who speak to us on behalf of God a Malakh meaning Messenger (it sometimes gets translated as Angel). A Navajo or Lakota might translate it animal spirit or spirit guide. If its a healthy message that uplifts you somehow as a person, does it matter what you call the Messenger? And if it tears you down, I think it's more important that you not listen than what you call it.

As regards living justly, showing mercy, and walking humbling with your God, I know I couldn't give you better advice. :)
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
The term “original sin” deals with Adam’s sin of disobedience in eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and its effects upon the rest of the human race. Original sin can be defined as “that sin and its guilt that we all possess in God’s eyes as a direct result of Adam’s sin in the Garden of Eden.” The doctrine of original sin focuses particularly on its effects on our nature and our standing before God, even before we are old enough to commit conscious sin.

continued

What is original sin?
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Well, we are all born sinful according to the Bible and according to everything I've observed in reality.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
sooda said:
Yep...

Augustine. Original sin, according to Augustine, consists of the guilt of Adam which all humans inherit. Justo Gonzalez interprets Augustine's teaching that humans are utterly depraved in nature and grace is irresistible, results in conversion, and leads to perseverance.
Original sin - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin
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This has always baffled me. I'm fine for seeing that human beings have a screwed up side as well as a noble side. But to say we are morally culpable for the screwed up side? It's not as if we chose it.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
This has always baffled me. I'm fine for seeing that human beings have a screwed up side as well as a noble side. But to say we are morally culpable for the screwed up side? It's not as if we chose it.
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I never liked it.. even when I was very young and I was told unbaptized babies went to purgatory. In a way you have to have original sin to justify the crucifixion.The older I get the less it sits well with me. The whole notion of blood sacrifice for the expiation of sin is pretty disgusting.
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
This has always baffled me. I'm fine for seeing that human beings have a screwed up side as well as a noble side. But to say we are morally culpable for the screwed up side? It's not as if we chose it.
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We are as the Creator made us and THAT is not my fault, and I refuse to take the blame for it!!! I will take the responsibility for at least trying to curb myself. Hmph !!!
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
sooda said:
The older I get the less it sits well with me. The whole notion of blood sacrifice for the expiation of sin is pretty disgusting.
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Uh oh. The writing is on the wall. The core idea of Christianity is the blood sacrifice for the expiation of sin. What are you going to do?
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
It depends on who you ask. Not every Christian believes in Original Sin, and not everyone is a Christian.
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No one teaches a baby to lie. Many do it when they first get in trouble for doing something their parents told them not to do. Comes natural.

(see Psalm 58:3)
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
74x12 said:
No one teaches a baby to lie. Many do it when they first get in trouble for doing something their parents told them not to do. Comes natural.

(see Psalm 58:3)
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After experiencing the tender mercies of the Christians, whatever they say is always questionable to me. Some practice Original Sin to gain an excuse for their own abominable behavior. The Creator is not deceived, be warned.

Why not assume responsibility for your own actions, feel contrite, and then repent? Is it not done because they give more credence to the adversary than God?
 
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