So Jesus is not God?

[Iymus]

But the Son is in fact Frog, is he not? Or are you saying the Son of Frog is not Frog?

I believe what you’re trying to tell me is that the Son of Frog is not the same specific Frog that he is Son of, is that correct? In other words, the Son if not the Father.

I have no problem with that, but that was not my question.

The question is not WHO but WHAT is the Son of Frog. Is he Frog, Dog, Man or God?



I agree that life originates with God but I’m not sure how this affects the question. For the sake of argument (and to eliminate any possible confusion) all parties whether begetter or begotten are presumed alive.

In other words, you might find the answer to my question a bit tricky but the question itself is not.




I am not referring to those Sons “called” but only those “begat” by Frog, of which there is only one. Is the only begotten “Son of Frog”:

1. Frog

2. Dog

3. Man or

4. God?​

Look, if you or anyone has a logically consistent argument that the Son of Frog is none of these then please…present it here. I'm all ears.

Likewise, if anyone feels the question too complex or that there is insufficient information to draw a reasonable conclusion please feel free to express their basis here. Perhaps we can thresh this out together.(Isaiah 43:26)

However, once we figure out the sticky problem of whether the Son of Frog is Frog I think we'll be able to move on to Dog, Man and God pretty quickly.

Remember, we are not referring to any adopted sons, and all parties have life. All begetters have announced they have ONE, and only one "begotten" son. We can presume this to be true because the Frog has never lied before. We do not need to know WHO this son of Frog is. In fact we don't even have to give this son a name. We are only looking to find out WHAT this son is.

So here it is again.

Is the only begotten Son of Frog

1. Frog
2. Dog
3. Man or
4. God?

Has anyone figured out an answer?​

1. I am saying the Son of Frog is not that Specific Frog who is his Parent but offspring of that frog. He may be called Frog but he is not the only true Frog that he originates from.

2. All offspring of God might be called God but we shall not have any any other God before the Most High God who is greater than all and the only true God and Originator of all Creation.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

3. Abraham had at least 8 sons but Issac was his one and only or only begotten Son. Only begotten is one of a kind or special.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

4. Is not that anyone has not figured out the answer, it is your intentions behind the answer that is concerning. Yes all offspring of God are gods but not the Most High God the only true God.

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

5. Any son of Frog whether begotten "one of a kind" or non begotten is a frog.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

"Son of X" can be figurative, but not if that Son is begotten.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

But you have quoted from the Christian scriptures!!! You have to understand that apart from intellectual curiousity, they mean nothing to me. They hold no authority whatsoever. They are riddled with bad theology and misquotes of the Tanakh (what you call the Old Testament). They teach an entirely different message than the Tanakh, and one that is contradictory.

And even with all that, "begotten" is still figurative in that verse, since Christian theology teaches that the Son is "eternally begotton," something quite different from being born of a father and mother.

 

[Iymus]

But you have quoted from the Christian scriptures!!! You have to understand that apart from intellectual curiousity, they mean nothing to me. They hold no authority whatsoever. They are riddled with bad theology and misquotes of the Tanakh (what you call the Old Testament). They teach an entirely different message than the Tanakh, and one that is contradictory.

And even with all that, "begotten" is still figurative in that verse, since Christian theology teaches that the Son is "eternally begotton," something quite different from being born of a father and mother.

1. Is the son mentioned in Proverbs 30:4 eternally begotten as in one of a kind or special compared to other sons of God?

Pro 30:4 KJV Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

2. Also is not repentant Children of Israel eternally begotten of the nations thru covenant?

Psa 148:14 KJV He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1. Is the son mentioned in Proverbs 30:4 eternally begotten as in one of a kind or special compared to other sons of God?

Pro 30:4 KJV Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

There is NO eternally begotten son in the Tanakh. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. It is a Christian invention.

2.

Also is not repentant Children of Israel eternally begotten of the nations thru covenant?

Psa 148:14 KJV He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD.

No, Israel is not eternally begotten. We had an origin, with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

 

[Iymus]

So the children of Israel are not one of a kind or special compared to the other nations?

Psa 96:5 KJV For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So the children of Israel are not one of a kind or special compared to the other nations?

Your lack of logic is disturbing. The fact that Israel is not "eternally begotten" has nothing to do with the fact that God set us apart from all other nations as the people of his covenant.

 

[Iymus]

Your lack of logic is disturbing. The fact that Israel is not "eternally begotten" has nothing to do with the fact that God set us apart from all other nations as the people of his covenant.

1. Interesting. I like to look up meanings, identify concepts along with intention of words and verses.

The Concept of begotten seems to be having an origin. However you say there is no eternally begotten son in the tanakh?

2. Does that mean that everyone mentioned in the tanakh as begotten does not have an origin?

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

3. How long is the Son of Adam "Seth" begotten from Adam? Can you please give me the expiration date since so man is eternally begotten and my lack of logic is disturbing according to you?

4. How long are step brothers and sisters begotten of one's father?

Lev 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

5. Also can the Greek meaning of begotten not encompass set apart as one of a kind or special, or child of promise?

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1. Interesting. I like to look up meanings, identify concepts along with intention of words and verses.

The Concept of begotten seems to be having an origin. However you say there is no eternally begotten son in the tanakh?

2. Does that mean that everyone mentioned in the tanakh as begotten does not have an origin?

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

3. How long is the Son of Adam "Seth" begotten from Adam? Can you please give me the expiration date since so man is eternally begotten and my lack of logic is disturbing according to you?

4. How long are step brothers and sisters begotten of one's father?

Lev 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

5. Also can the Greek meaning of begotten not encompass set apart as one of a kind or special, or child of promise?

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

You are confusing begotten with eternally begotten. Eternally begotten means (among other things) having no beginning nor ending. Regular begotten has a beginning.

But this is starting to get into Christian theology, and I am loosing interest, since I am not a Christian, but a Jew. I suggest you take this up with a fellow Christian, maybe one of the Catholic scholars in here.

 

[Iymus]

You are confusing begotten with eternally begotten. Eternally begotten means (among other things) having no beginning nor ending. Regular begotten has a beginning.

But this is starting to get into Christian theology, and I am loosing interest, since I am not a Christian, but a Jew. I suggest you take this up with a fellow Christian, maybe one of the Catholic scholars in here.

Doesn't that seem oxymoronic? How can combining eternally and beginning equate to having no beginning ? Appreciate the feedback I will.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Doesn't that seem oxymoronic? How can combining eternally and beginning equate to having no beginning ? Appreciate the feedback I will.

For example, God is eternal, having no beginning or ending. What I've learned from Christians is that they believe the same of Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

No, that’s not what I was getting at. You missed the point. For ancient Jews, monotheism was paramount. That’s why there is, for the ancient Jews, no real dealings with an afterlife. The dead were viewed as very powerful — almost as gods. any dealings with the dead and their powers would open the way to idolatry. Remember: the gospels were written after Jesus’ resurrection was a “thing,” from the POV of people who already believed in a resurrection. Lazarus came out of that tradition.

I believe the Jews were laboring under a misconception. The spirits of the dead have no more power than they had when alive.

 

[sojourner]

I believe the Jews were laboring under a misconception. The spirits of the dead have no more power than they had when alive.

It doesn't matter if it was a "misconception." That's the idea they were operating under and that's the idea that permeated the Resurrection event in the eyes of the gospel writers who were Jewish.

 

[Oeste]

1. I am saying the Son of Frog is not that Specific Frog who is his Parent but offspring of that frog. He may be called Frog but he is not the only true Frog that he originates from.

The Son of Frog is not the only true Frog but he is true Frog. I am sure you'll agree there is no reasonable argument for the Son of Frog to be a false Frog.

At this point there are two true Frogs, and Father Frog is no longer the only Frog. That's okay unless Father Frog claims there is only one true Frog and he, Father Frog is it.

2. All offspring of God might be called God but we shall not have any any other God before the Most High God who is greater than all and the only true God and Originator of all Creation.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Correct! Man has “called” many things (men, trees, planets, sun, etc.) God, but mankind has only one true God. All other Gods have been “adopted” by men as Gods.


However, Jesus is not the Son of God by adoption because he is begotten.

3. Abraham had at least 8 sons but Issac was his one and only or only begotten Son. Only begotten is one of a kind or special.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Correct! Abraham begat many sons, but Isaac was declared his “only begotten” due to the special relationship he had to his Father. Of course, Abraham was man so every son he begat were men.

Likewise, if Frog begat 8 sons, they would all be Frogs, and if Dog begat 8 sons, they would all be Dogs.

4. Is not that anyone has not figured out the answer, it is your intentions behind the answer that is concerning. .

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Agreed! The Son of God is God. This might be of concern to others but logic dictates the Son of God cannot be Frog, Dog, or something other than God.

5. Any son of Frog whether begotten "one of a kind" or non begotten is a frog.

Yes, any begat of the Frog is Frog.

Yes all offspring of God are gods but not the Most High God the only true God

There is only one true God yet Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, which makes him God just as being the only begotten son of Frog makes one Frog. Jesus cannot be a second God, because there is only one God, and there is no other Gods besides the one true God. Neither can he be a false God as he would be condemned or judged by the true God, and the true God never condemned him. Neither is Jesus the Father, because he talks to the Father and he prays.

That was the quandary facing the early church…how to resolve the scriptural claim of Jesus’ deity without dismissing or ignoring large swaths of scripture.

Having settled the question on whether Jesus was God, the church then attended to the question of how he was God which is a bit beyond this thread's scope.

 

[Iymus]

There is only one true God yet Jesus is the only begotten Son of God,

Is the Son, Lord God ?

 

[moorea944]

The Son of Frog is not the only true Frog but he is true Frog. I am sure you'll agree there is no reasonable argument for the Son of Frog to be a false Frog.

At this point there are two true Frogs, and Father Frog is no longer the only Frog. That's okay unless Father Frog claims there is only one true Frog and he, Father Frog is it.



Correct! Man has “called” many things (men, trees, planets, sun, etc.) God, but mankind has only one true God. All other Gods have been “adopted” by men as Gods.


However, Jesus is not the Son of God by adoption because he is begotten.



Correct! Abraham begat many sons, but Isaac was declared his “only begotten” due to the special relationship he had to his Father. Of course, Abraham was man so every son he begat were men.

Likewise, if Frog begat 8 sons, they would all be Frogs, and if Dog begat 8 sons, they would all be Dogs.



Agreed! The Son of God is God. This might be of concern to others but logic dictates the Son of God cannot be Frog, Dog, or something other than God.



Yes, any begat of the Frog is Frog.



There is only one true God yet Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, which makes him God just as being the only begotten son of Frog makes one Frog. Jesus cannot be a second God, because there is only one God, and there is no other Gods besides the one true God. Neither can he be a false God as he would be condemned or judged by the true God, and the true God never condemned him. Neither is Jesus the Father, because he talks to the Father and he prays.

That was the quandary facing the early church…how to resolve the scriptural claim of Jesus’ deity without dismissing or ignoring large swaths of scripture.

Having settled the question on whether Jesus was God, the church then attended to the question of how he was God which is a bit beyond this thread's scope.

[There is only one true God yet Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, which makes him God just as being the only begotten son of Frog makes one Frog.]

Actually, it doesnt......, esp in this case. Just because Jesus is the son of God, doesnt make him "a God". What does scripture tell us about his birth, the Holy Spirit, which is the "power of God", started a baby in Mary. God created a baby in Mary by His power (Luke 1). He was born a man, same nature as us. Simple language, easy to understand. And it had to be like that too.

It was critical in God's plan of Redemption that whoever was going to redeem Mankind from sin and death, also shared our nature. But why? Why is that so important?

It was through a "man" that sin was first conceived and came into the world. Sin had to be condemned by a "man", in the very place in which it first took hold. So it was that in being "born of a woman" that 'he... himself... likewise...took part of the same" (Hebrews 2). He was sent "in the lifeness of sinful flesh" and was "tempted in all points as we are" but never sinned.

Sin had to be condemned in the flesh by the righteous possessor of that flesh, as a basis for our reconciliation to God.
There was only one way that this could happen. Not only was he born of a woman, but he was also the Son of God. He was his Father's son and had to battle daily with the same battle between flesh and the spirit, but it was the spirit that overcame!!! But how? How was that possible? "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself".

 

[Oeste]

Is the Son, Lord God ?

That would get into who he is, rather that what he is.

There are plenty of ongoing threads on who Jesus is already.

 

[Oeste]

Actually, it doesnt......, esp in this case. Just because Jesus is the son of God, doesnt make him "a God".

Then likewise, just because frog is the son of frog, he is not "a frog"...he could be "a dog", correct?

What does scripture tell us about his birth, the Holy Spirit, which is the "power of God", started a baby in Mary. God created a baby in Mary by His power (Luke 1). He was born a man, same nature as us. Simple language, easy to understand. And it had to be like that too.

Yes, Jesus is the "Son of Man". Simple language, easy to understand, and it had to be like that too. The Son of Man is man.

Likewise Jesus is the "Son of God". Simple language, easy to understand, and it had to be like that too. The Son of God is God.

Show us why the only begotten Son of Frog is not frog.
Then show us why the only begotten Son of Dog is not dog.
Then show us why the only begotten Son of Man is not man,

THEN you can show why the only begotten Son of God is not God.

 

[Iymus]

That would get into who he is, rather that what he is.

There are plenty of ongoing threads on who Jesus is already.

Your comment seems disingenuous. Getting into the specifics of who the God of Abraham and his descendants is reveals who he is and who he is not.

Hos 6:6 KJV For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Heb 11:6 KJV But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Deu 6:4 KJV Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Exo 3:14 KJV And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 KJV And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Isa 43:10 KJV Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Num 23:19 KJV God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Mat 23:9 KJV And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Heb 12:9 KJV Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Act 17:29 KJV Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 KJV And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Joh 8:40 KJV But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Mat 16:13 KJV When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 7:21 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 4:34 KJV Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 5:43 KJV I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 KJV He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Jud 1:4 KJV For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[moorea944]

Then likewise, just because frog is the son of frog, he is not "a frog"...he could be "a dog", correct?



Yes, Jesus is the "Son of Man". Simple language, easy to understand, and it had to be like that too. The Son of Man is man.

Likewise Jesus is the "Son of God". Simple language, easy to understand, and it had to be like that too. The Son of God is God.

Show us why the only begotten Son of Frog is not frog.
Then show us why the only begotten Son of Dog is not dog.
Then show us why the only begotten Son of Man is not man,

THEN you can show why the only begotten Son of God is not God.

[Then likewise, just because frog is the son of frog, he is not "a frog"...he could be "a dog", correct?]
How can a dog be a frog? Or are we just talking stupidly because you just want Jesus to be God......

What does scripture tell us. First of all, God didnt have sex with a mortal woman. His power, the Holy Spirit, made Mary pregnant. He was a man, God was his father and Mary was his mother. So out of just that, that makes Jesus God? Wow, interesting.....

The Messiah had to be a man or "one of us". If he was a God, the atonement goes right out the window...

[Show us why the only begotten Son of Frog is not frog.
Then show us why the only begotten Son of Dog is not dog.]
This is something completely different. A frog and a dog does not pregnant a female frog or a female dog with it's power..... Do you think they can??

[Then show us why the only begotten Son of Man is not man,]
What? Scripture tell us that he is a man.... Why, do you think he's something else.... like a God? I hope not...

[THEN you can show why the only begotten Son of God is not God.]
I dont have to... scripture is clear on that, that Jesus is not God.

 

[Muffled]

It doesn't matter if it was a "misconception." That's the idea they were operating under and that's the idea that permeated the Resurrection event in the eyes of the gospel writers who were Jewish.

I believe you are not a mind reader who could know what the disciples thought previously to Jesus. I believe those writing in the Talmud would have had some opinions but those would not necessarily be held in common with laborers. I believe any idea that acts of God could be considered idol worship to be quite foolish and yes there was resurrection by God through prophets in the OT.