So Jesus is not God?

[Soapy]

Me too, have a wonderful day!!

The complete problem is that responders are responding using their own BELIEF SYSTEM.

Mathematically, it’s like multiple persons debating about multiplication of ‘56’ and ‘’72’... Each responder claims a different answer which is TRUE in their own BASE numerology but is obviously FALSE in an opponents different BASE numerology.

1+1 in base 2 is 10....
1+1 in base 10 is obviously 2...

Who is right?

First, define the parameters and the unit bases and then things will ‘add up’.

Is the question in this thread about CHRISTIANITY?

If it is then nothing calling itself Judaism, Muslimism, Jainism, etc., should form any part of any responses.

 

[rational experiences]

How about you live as a bio human being first and origin because of natural light.

Answer I am alive and living and own life for about 100 years due to natural light.

Ask the question...how come I die...the answer radiation only allows the spirit self to live for that length of time.

Answer cosmological theories do not own, nor does it support our existence.

Reason we know....we are as humans Creators of our own babies...humans.

Common sense for any clod.

Then is the fact no machine exist....not anywhere.

So why own maths and maths reference, when you claim you are superior intelligence telling stories?

Makes no clod sense actually why you would express it, if it weren't in fact inferred to changing the God stone...into forms of gases as light...when God had died...went cold space cold, not burning gas to be stone....clod.

And then clod what is the other lying determination that a clod would espouse?

Oh, you mean not married to in real life...for since when is any female married to God....and that is for the scientist machine button pusher experimenter on our human life...as per Father retort just for you, clod.

And what else does Father advise today?

That due to a Satanist claiming he created natural light....by illuminating night time sky EVEN 12 balance his own self...and made it an EVE attack with his UFO theories MATHS.....was when he burnt a colder gas mass...that water evaporation had to forcibly cool down to hold natural light as natural light.

Being your sick Luciferian lie about you having created natural light as a copier...for our bio life then changed due to you taking ground mass natural water away from our life support.

That sort of mathematical clod.

 

[rational experiences]

Bot!!!

About the level of your human male rationality actually.

Father said today that he never owned your life sacrifice, you lied, you did it to yourself and blamed him for not saving you. If you realize you can only make all quotes as his son whilst living sacrificing your own life....for science/machine.

In a false ideal my spirit is a resource for I am God. Even after all of the arguing, logical explanations about self, presence of self first, human first you want to claim and I was God and then God became a human.

So today I will argue that I am God...for that purpose.

And then say and now I will invent God...and everyone would wonder at him...yet he says God is a particle. So then you begin to see his irrationality.

The Bible male life/death to self said no man is God, for you realized when you killed your own self that you are not God nor do you own God equal to God as self.

For when you die, which is your science FORMULA...beginning to end, which you lie about, you cannot talk after you are gone to say I am wrong and sorry....you normally do that situation for self in self personal awareness just before you die, in an NDE experience.

Father therefore said just remind your brother that his science formula as symbols says beginning the human self fully present as an adult....previous non presence sperm and an ovary. But science cannot do that equation. Then sex, changes the bio life into a baby, that lives inside of a female womb for 9 months, then is born, grows through bodily variations then becomes the lying adult self, the scientist.

Formula in science a male appraising another living human by MEASURE and says to that human O a circle around your human bio life equals the measure of how much gases you use everyday.

Why the human is just a day he says as another one of his lies...yet he says it is a truth for he was applying the measure his own self.

Father therefore says today this female is 59 years old...not 100 years of using an atmosphere.

And also said and when a tree who you quote biological science strings about lives for about 400 years in Nature, and radiation is why the bio life eventually dies....if you pretend we are linked to a tree...then you try to kill us early with 400 years of radiation mass....as the form of idiotic liar you all are.

Everyone should realize that when science says that science is wrong, only particular real scientists own that claim and self expression. The science self who is wrong never ever in the history of science claimed he is wrong.

Science in knowledge of what they did to the Earth atmosphere created natural light their own self....for gas mass burning cooled by water and oxygen is the same.....yet to do it/cause it in science to increase it...then a very large amount of water gets removed...to cool and keep natural day light that is not owner of that mass burning...and then for science burning to return to day light also.

Where and how an egotist says I can copy the God stone Creator history...for God O the stone is named in his science as the Creator.

Factually.

So as I am not a bot...but males who own all use and descriptions of thinking from their body and mind first....due to science says bot....then it is all in your head, liar.

 

[RabbiO]

Is the question in this thread about CHRISTIANITY?

If it is then nothing calling itself Judaism, Muslimism, Jainism, etc., should form any part of any responses.

Although the OP directed the question to folks of a particular religious identification, this thread was not filed in either the Same Faith subforum or the Christianity DIR. Doing so would have limited those permitted to participate in the conversation.

If you’re not happy with this thread, why not just start your own on a subforum where the participation is more limited?

 

[Soapy]

Although the OP directed the question to folks of a particular religious identification, this thread was not filed in either the Same Faith subforum or the Christianity DIR. Doing so would have limited those permitted to participate in the conversation.

If you’re not happy with this thread, why not just start your own on a subforum where the participation is more limited?

If you felt the comment from me was unsubstantiated then it was only required for you to say the first part of your response. There was no need trying to insult me by saying I should start my own thread.

Here is the reasoning for my comment:

1. The thread is concerning [whether or not] Jesus is NOT GOD
2. Only one (Catholic and sects of Catholicism) of the “ONLY ONE GOD” belief systems believes that Jesus IS GOD
3. Jews and Muslims have NOTHING corresponding to any kind of theory or ideology concerning Jesus being God

Given the above, it leaves very little (more like NONE) room for discussion, never mind, DEBATE, for any belief group other than Christian who disagree that the CHRISTIAN GOD is anyone else but YHWH - and absolutely not Jesus Christ: who is the ‘High Priest of God’ and was ‘made Lord and Christ BY ... ‘ YHWH!!

So, do you agree or disagree with my reasoning?

 

[RabbiO]

@Soapy

I’m sorry you took offense. No insult was intended. My comment was based on the fact that unrestricted threads, especially those that extend over a long period time, or an extended number of messages, have a tendency to wander.

I was merely suggesting one possible aid to keeping a topic more focused. Personally, I have no interest in the conversation.

 

[Soapy]

@Soapy

I’m sorry you took offense. No insult was intended. My comment was based on the fact that unrestricted threads, especially those that extend over a long period time, or an extended number of messages, have a tendency to wander.

I was merely suggesting one possible aid to keeping a topic more focused. Personally, I have no interest in the conversation.

You can certainly JOIN and put forth OPINIONS concerning the topic based on READING THE NEW TESTAMENT and relating it to the tanaka (Torah, Old Testament, etc). Read the New Testament and ASSUME IT IS TRUE as far as Christians believe it... not as Jews DO NOT believe it.

This means; read with INNOCENT MIND.

In fact it helps the cause of both (for or against) to “say what you see” concerning whether the NEW TESTAMENT (which is the mainstay of the debate) IS claiming that Jesus is [ALMIGHTY] GOD. What you MUST NOT SAY is, like, ‘We Jews [do / do not] believe...’.

What you say is, “I think the [new testament] shows strictly that Jesus indefactigabably is / is not Almighty God ... because... x y z...!”

Look forward to seeing what you say.... thanks!

 

[rational experiences]

The argument in the status of science.

When the atmospheric gases/spirit changed in the past did natural light the order of movement, the spirit movement wandering change?

Yes, says science in relativity it did.

The ancient science human known light/spirit movement in the heavens forms this expressed symbolism to state God in the Heavens.

O hot gases as natural light burning, cooling by water evaporation/oxygen and microbes in water. So O pi as light movement in a GAS state, the spirit emerges.

. is what occurs in the O light cooled movement of the spirit as God due to gases being burnt/removed, natural light sacrifice, as it was taught is just natural light belonging to God, the sacrifice. Relativity as taught in the statements science.

God owned it....O the stone body formed in the Holy Mother of God spatial womb....also relativity.

O with a . dot in it then forms spiritual movement. . to a side movement - to fall as God the angel in light into the swirl/spiral of a G, cooling back to O. GO in highest form of God.

Then science did the PHI calculation BREAD TH measure about stone...for they can only convert stone by radiation heat to get to cold held fused gases...so they have to remove stone....being extreme cold to get to a gas/spirit.

To achieve that outcome they change radiation/radio wave radiating signals in Earth heavens. Relative science notification I CHANGED the fall of God in natural light.

Into the evaluation of O G movement into O splitting by increased radiation presence into evaluated D/D. One D half remained with GOD in the heavens..and the other D value falls as gases burning....the angel in science falling converting conditions to the ground...where water/oxygen is then forced to cool it again to form O...cooling.

Hence the scientist community knew that they had caused a huge extra water mass to be involved in the natural atmosphere to allow radiation converting sciences to exist....NOT NATURAL....machine forced applied methods.

Fall out of God by science cause...seeing science discussed the relativity of why a human life on the ground became SACRIFICED. Common sense really.

So no matter what science religious creation quote any scientist in an evaluated science quote about letters/symbols and numbers applied to LETTERS, your science evaluation is just for human male sciences....and you are all telling lies actually.

No scientist ever owned in his history any correct quotes about obtaining control or manipulating the presence of NATURAL...for the terminology it disappears without you holding it....God in its natural placement is real.

The DATA said by a PHI evaluation that the status sacrificed irradiated UFO held Sun machine caused constant would not shut out of attacking life by 1000 Jesus and 1000 SA TAN calculations xero….God is not xero it is zero, natural.

X says God as science caused change fall out radiation event xero 24.

For extra light....gases burning using up our ground water for life health was not going to be stopped being removed to keep the atmosphere cooled against the UFO sun activated attack until the Messengers of God, and the Saviour asteroid wandering star had put back its gas spirit into the womb.

How the relativity of it was taught, stating categorically never change GOD...for it was the word/name of LIGHT by conditions of science aware movement of the spirit in LIGHT itself.

JESUS CHRIST stated the atmospheric spirit gases of the CHRIST would be held and remain in radiation fall out, life being sacrificed until the year 2012.

Radiation science re started.....we began being sacrificed worse....for it was like the cooling after the Jesus event had no meaning. Why ebola was caused....as we cosmologically shift back in time having the Saviour gases in space REMOVED.

By a lying science community who think that because they say so...they can do anything they like to Planet Earth and some miracle will save them.

Why science told science that science is truly sick in its own head....and it was why STephen Hawking an aware sacrificed male life in full knowledge of science lying to itself said you need to go and look for another planet to live on.

Even when a human is revered, do you ever in reality science community truly honour life or self? The real answer is a NO. If you honoured and respected a sacrificed life awareness for the sake of life continuance, science of the occult nuclear would never have been practiced and cosmological studies...would just be to go oooooooh and ahhhhhhhhhh about Gods in space.

 

[Muffled]

The moment you say that Trinitarianism is three gods is the moment you reveal you don't understand Trinitarianism.

I completely reject Trinitarianism, but at least I understand what it is.

You didn't read me carefully, so here is your second opportunity. I didn't say that Hezekiah's name was the Everlasting Father. I said his name was "The Everlasting Father is the Prince of Peace." IOW his name says that God is the Prince of Peace, not Hezekiah.

I believe in the interest of peace I will buy that you meant what you said this time. So then the question still remains Who is the son who is God the everlasting father who is the prince of peace.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus is not God.
Yahweh is God.
Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus is Son and Yahweh is Father of the Son.
The Son ...becomes... the Father of HIS OWN family.
Jesus will ‘give eternal life’ to those who believe in him and HIS FATHER, Yahweh. Hence Jesus is classed as ‘Eternal Father’ to his (metaphorical) children.

I believe you can state things until the sun doesn't shine but without a logical explanation your statements have no basis in truth.

 

[Muffled]

I'm sorry, but that is a great (and amusing) misunderstanding. If you had checked my religious affiliation, you would have seen that I am a Jew. Not only do I not believe that Jesus is God, I also don't believe he is the messiah, or even a prophet. I reject allll these Christian claims.

I believe your rejection is totally irrational.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe in the interest of peace I will buy that you meant what you said this time. So then the question still remains Who is the son who is God the everlasting father who is the prince of peace.

Isaiah 9:5 (Christian Bibles 9:6) -- a child.son is mentioned which validates the kingship of Hezekiah and how in the 14th year of his reign the Assyrian Army was defeated. The God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

BTW, my interpretation of "A wonderful counselor is the mighty God" is only one interpretation. Kings often took divine names, and it didn't mean they were God. I have been taught the name Hezkiyahu (Hezekia) means "Mighty God." Notice the Yah in the name. Or (as I have done) you can put in the implied "is" (Hebrew does not have a present tense linking verb) and it becomes God is mighty.

And I need to share some more with you. Please know that I recognize that you mean well, and that I see Christians as good people. But for some reason, even though Christians recognize the Hebrew Bible as the word of God, they are not familiar with Hebrew.

Christians have CHANGED all the verbs in Isaiah 9:5 from the perfect tense into the future tense. Perfect present tense is like "He has grown impatient in the past hour." IOW our verse is talking about something that has already occurred, not something that will occur in the future. It cannot possibly be a messianic prophecy. I'm not yelling this at you, or trying to grind this into you. But the Christian translation simply is a lie -- it cannot be the Word of God, because it changes the Word of God. The Christian Church has deceived you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe your rejection is totally irrational.

And I believe that your view comes from ignorance of the Hebrew texts.

I don't anticipate that my arguments will change your mind, but it does make for an interesting discussion. And there are seekers on the board who I believe may be swayed by arguments.

 

[Soapy]

I believe you can state things until the sun doesn't shine but without a logical explanation your statements have no basis in truth.

This is interesting....

Is it not logical that ‘God’ being the Father means that Jesus cannot also be ‘God’?

You ask for ‘proof’... Even Jesus Christ says to the Greeks, ‘No proof will be shown you’... Are you Greek?

‘God’ means ‘Ultimate Ruler’. There can be only one ‘ultimate ruler’. So it is logical that if that ultimate ruler is the Father then the Son cannot also be that same ultimate ruler.

What you are mixing up is that Jesus WILL BECOME ‘THE ULTIMATE RULER ... over THE CREATED WORLD’...

This is a ruler over a SUB-world... WITHIN the greater world of Heaven:

• The Father is ultimate ruler over the GREATER kingdom of Heaven
• The Son WILL BE the ultimate ruler over the lesser kingdom of CREATION which the FATHER will APPOINT HIM
• The created kingdom is WITHIN the greater kingdom so the son is not EQUAL to the Father
• A judge is ultimate ruler WITHIN his own court room - but he is not ultimate ruler over the LAW SOCIETY which governs the laws of judges

I hope you can see now the information you require to make the decision that Jesus is not ‘ALMIGHTY GOD’...

I know I just added a deeper definition which includes ‘Almighty’ and this is only because of Trinitarians who refuse to add ‘ALMIGHTY’ to their definition of ‘The Father’... this is exactly because they desire confusion to be used as their tool for their deception in the ideology of Trinitarianism.

The worlds are full of ‘Gods’... ANYONE or thing can be a ‘GOD’ if it is deemed to ‘rule’ over persons or things...:

• A Judge rules (is God) over a courtroom
• A chess grandmaster is God over his game
• A principal rules (Is God) over his school
• A Father rules (is God) over his household
• A Lion rules (is God ‘animal’) over the jungle (so said!)
• A ‘Master Key’ rules over all keys in a set of similar keys

Every ‘Ruler’ in the list has a MASTER over it... even the chess grand master is not ULTIMATE because these are human CONTEXTS and somewhere there will be a GREATER CHAMPION that is not yet known.

But finally, The ALMIGHTY GOD is ruler over ALL OTHERS THAT ARE CALLED GODS!

This ruler is THE FATHER...

 

[Soapy]

Isaiah 9:5 (Christian Bibles 9:6) -- a child.son is mentioned which validates the kingship of Hezekiah and how in the 14th year of his reign the Assyrian Army was defeated. The God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

BTW, my interpretation of "A wonderful counselor is the mighty God" is only one interpretation. Kings often took divine names, and it didn't mean they were God. I have been taught the name Hezkiyahu (Hezekia) means "Mighty God." Notice the Yah in the name. Or (as I have done) you can put in the implied "is" (Hebrew does not have a present tense linking verb) and it becomes God is mighty.

And I need to share some more with you. Please know that I recognize that you mean well, and that I see Christians as good people. But for some reason, even though Christians recognize the Hebrew Bible as the word of God, they are not familiar with Hebrew.

Christians have CHANGED all the verbs in Isaiah 9:5 from the perfect tense into the future tense. Perfect present tense is like "He has grown impatient in the past hour." IOW our verse is talking about something that has already occurred, not something that will occur in the future. It cannot possibly be a messianic prophecy. I'm not yelling this at you, or trying to grind this into you. But the Christian translation simply is a lie -- it cannot be the Word of God, because it changes the Word of God. The Christian Church has deceived you.

Please understand that ‘GOD’ is not meaning ‘YHWH’.

Anyone can be [A] GOD. It has a CONTEXT attached to it.

The Romans had ‘Gods’...
The Egyptians had ‘Gods’...
The Philistines had ‘Gods’...
The Hindu’s had ‘Gods’...
All nations had ‘Gods’...

Now notice that their DEITY ‘RULERS’, their ‘LAW MAKERS’ consists of multiple PERSONS or OBJECTS.

It matters not... one or many... the point is that these SPIRIT OR OBJECT DEITIES are their ‘GOD’s...

And DEITIES are the ‘person or thing’ THAT IS WORSHIPPED.

So some pagan nation worshipped WOOD STONE OR STICKS as their DEITY .., their GODs.

Jacobs UNCLE worshipped stone Gods... it’s not the STONES that they worshipped but rather, the DEITY SPIRIT they believed were manifested in the stones. The makers and sellers of these objects knew all these things were FAKE but enterprise never stopped deceit... in fact much enterprise is ensconced in deceit.

So please... take full knowledge of how to use the word and term, ‘God’... it is not EXPLICIT to the CHRISTIAN, JEWISH, or MUSLIM deity. It is a GENERAL TERM and Word for a WORSHIPPED DEITY.

To be EXPLICIT you must then, like with Moses, NAME THE GOD... in the C/J belief it is YHWH, and in the M belief, it is ALLAH.

You will then be fully able to claim correctly that Jesus is not YHWH GOD... and being called ‘MIGHTY GOD’ in no way declares Jesus as the “ALMIGHTY GOD” which, itself, declares the owner of that TITLE as YHWH.

In fact, ‘mighty God’ is pertaining to Jesus’ rule OVER THE KINGDOM OF CREATION on the earthly throne is his forefather, King David, ... not the Greater kingdom of HEAVEN.

As a Christian, you must be eager to view ALMIGHTY GOD: YHWH: The Father, as never leaving his heavenly throne... try finding a verse anywhere in scriptures which claims YHWH leaves his throne...

You need to see this in the analogy of Joseph in Egypt: though Pharoah places Joseph ON HIS THRONE to ACT AS PHAROAH, the throne is STILL OWNED BY PHAROAH. Joseph cannot overthrow Pharoah nor do anything that Pharoah does not ALLOW Joseph to do... if Joseph were to denigrate the throne then Pharoah would REMOVE Joseph - which shows that Joseph is only a placeholder - a steward - in place of Pharoah until the ‘famine’ is over.

Not part of the Analogy: And indeed that was what happened. After that Pharoah died, Joseph was taken down and another Pharoah was put in place and maybe another until no one remembered Joseph’sgreat works. Enter the time of Moses!!!!

 

[moorea944]

Isaiah 9:5 (Christian Bibles 9:6) -- a child.son is mentioned which validates the kingship of Hezekiah and how in the 14th year of his reign the Assyrian Army was defeated. The God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

BTW, my interpretation of "A wonderful counselor is the mighty God" is only one interpretation. Kings often took divine names, and it didn't mean they were God. I have been taught the name Hezkiyahu (Hezekia) means "Mighty God." Notice the Yah in the name. Or (as I have done) you can put in the implied "is" (Hebrew does not have a present tense linking verb) and it becomes God is mighty.

And I need to share some more with you. Please know that I recognize that you mean well, and that I see Christians as good people. But for some reason, even though Christians recognize the Hebrew Bible as the word of God, they are not familiar with Hebrew.

Christians have CHANGED all the verbs in Isaiah 9:5 from the perfect tense into the future tense. Perfect present tense is like "He has grown impatient in the past hour." IOW our verse is talking about something that has already occurred, not something that will occur in the future. It cannot possibly be a messianic prophecy. I'm not yelling this at you, or trying to grind this into you. But the Christian translation simply is a lie -- it cannot be the Word of God, because it changes the Word of God. The Christian Church has deceived you.

[Isaiah 9:5 (Christian Bibles 9:6) -- a child.son is mentioned which validates the kingship of Hezekiah and how in the 14th year of his reign the Assyrian Army was defeated. The God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.]
Actually it doesnt. You say that because you dont believe that Jesus is the Messiah. That verse has nothing to do with Hezekiah.

[BTW, my interpretation of "A wonderful counselor is the mighty God" is only one interpretation. Kings often took divine names, and it didn't mean they were God. I have been taught the name Hezkiyahu (Hezekia) means "Mighty God." Notice the Yah in the name. Or (as I have done) you can put in the implied "is" (Hebrew does not have a present tense linking verb) and it becomes God is mighty.]
Hezekiah means "God strenghtens".

[And I need to share some more with you. Please know that I recognize that you mean well, and that I see Christians as good people. But for some reason, even though Christians recognize the Hebrew Bible as the word of God, they are not familiar with Hebrew.]
And you are? Or do you just occasionally study it. Are you fluent in it? Just curious........


[Christians have CHANGED all the verbs in Isaiah 9:5 from the perfect tense into the future tense.]
We have? All Christians or just some.... It just seems that your changing somethings too. Your making verses into something else....
I think you stated before awhile ago that the messiah was the nation of Israel? Correct? I didnt quit understand your version of that. Scripture tells us that the Messiah was going to come from one seed, not many as in the nation of Israel. What about Psalms 22, is that the nation of Israel? Israel sinned, the Messiah never did.

[But the Christian translation simply is a lie -- it cannot be the Word of God, because it changes the Word of God. The Christian Church has deceived you.]
Wow!! You might want to change to decaf!!!

 

[metis]

Isaiah is not about Jesus, but some symbolism used in Isaiah may be viewed as "prefiguring"* Jesus in a roundabout way.


* The "Jerome Bible Commentary" (Catholic) uses that term.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

[Isaiah 9:5 (Christian Bibles 9:6) -- a child.son is mentioned which validates the kingship of Hezekiah and how in the 14th year of his reign the Assyrian Army was defeated. The God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.]
Actually it doesnt. You say that because you dont believe that Jesus is the Messiah. That verse has nothing to do with Hezekiah.

Because you have tried to be a psychic and declared (wrongly) what my motivations are, I simply didn't read the rest of your post.

 

[moorea944]

Because you have tried to be a psychic and declared (wrongly) what my motivations are, I simply didn't read the rest of your post.

No, not at all. Sorry you feel that way.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, not at all. Sorry you feel that way.

You specifically said that the only reason I thought something was because I rejected Jesus, and summarily dismissed my arguments. That's pretty low, because it involves getting inside my brain as if you read minds.