So Jesus is not God?

[ElishaElijah]

Eternal life isnt guaranteed. Salvation is not unconditional, it is conditional. Paul even said that he didnt even know that he would have eternal life. But he did speak about the hope of eternal life. So what does it mean when it says that we are saved? Many times it says that we are saved if....... which that means there are conditions now to salvation. So what does being saved mean? Are we saved into something? Are we saved out of something? Or are we saved by setting a part for something to come...... Or... all three....

What would your answer be?

Just like the blood on the door at Passover protected the home from the angel of death so the blood of Jesus covers me from the wrath of God to come. Saved from the wrath of God. The Holy Spirit is the guarantee that I am His. I’m waiting for His return and the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
So if a person doesn’t have the Holy Spirit that person isn’t born again and doesn’t belong to Christ yet.

 

[moorea944]

Just like the blood on the door at Passover protected the home from the angel of death so the blood of Jesus covers me from the wrath of God to come. Saved from the wrath of God. The Holy Spirit is the guarantee that I am His. I’m waiting for His return and the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
So if a person doesn’t have the Holy Spirit that person isn’t born again and doesn’t belong to Christ yet.

Ok.... your confusing me about this Holy Spirit thing. It's almost like your talking about it like it's a person..... then you change it into something else. Not really sure where your going with this...

So how do you "receive" the Holy Spirit? Is it a person or a spirit of some sort.
Plus, being born again has nothing to do with receiving the or a Holy Spirit. Being born again has two applications. Water baptism - being a new person or a new creation as Paul puts it. And then Paul talks about when we are changed into immortality. Being born again into a completely new nature of immortality. Those are two "being born again" ways.

So when you talk about being born again by the Holy Spirit, what does that mean in your eyes? Is there a verse on that?

And thank you for posting John 17, but what does that have to do with being born again?

 

[ElishaElijah]

So how do you "receive" the Holy Spirit? Is it a person or a spirit of some sort.

When you receive Jesus Christ as your Messiah, He gives you His Spirit/He is a person who dwells in you. That is being born again, made spiritually alive and can now communicate and fellowship with God.

 

[ElishaElijah]

And thank you for posting John 17, but what does that have to do with being born again?

That is Eternal Life because apart from God their is no Life. For example if a person rejects God and goes to hell, it is for eternal separation/ torment not eternal life.

 

[moorea944]

When you receive Jesus Christ as your Messiah, He gives you His Spirit/He is a person who dwells in you. That is being born again, made spiritually alive and can now communicate and fellowship with God.

Is there a verse on that? Would like to see that one. Thank you.

 

[moorea944]

Is there a verse on that? Would like to see that one. Thank you.

Also, are you saying that salvation is based on just belief only?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Also, are you saying that salvation is based on just belief only?

No, Trust, Covenant, Relationship

 

[ElishaElijah]

Is there a verse on that? Would like to see that one. Thank you.

“In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:11-14‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 

[metis]

“In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:11-14‬ ‭ESV‬‬

IMO, we as Christians all too often don't give enough credit to the Holy Spirit. Where you and I may disagree is that I don't believe the Holy Spirit just deals with us Christians as I feel God's spirit likely goes well beyond just us.

Funny that I was thinking about starting a thread on the Holy Spirit today but I'm going to be out of town over the next three days so I'll have relatively little time here on RF until Friday. Hopefully I'll remember to start the thread then.

[btw, part of my trip actually deals with touching base again with what led me back to Christianity that involved what some call "premonitions", but in my case I refer to what I experienced as be "spiritual connections"]

 

[ElishaElijah]

IMO, we as Christians all too often don't give enough credit to the Holy Spirit. Where you and I may disagree is that I don't believe the Holy Spirit just deals with us Christians as I feel God's spirit likely goes well beyond just us.

I agree with you on that, the Holy Spirit convicts of sin and that’s everyone. The difference is the Holy Spirit doesn’t dwell inside of unbelievers, only believers.
“And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:8‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 

[JerryMyers]

When you receive Jesus Christ as your Messiah, He gives you His Spirit/He is a person who dwells in you. That is being born again, made spiritually alive and can now communicate and fellowship with God.

Did you make that up yourself?? For sure that’s not how you receive the Holy Spirit, at least NOT according to your own scriptures !!

You receive the Holy Spirit when you have sincerely repented – ‘Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”’ – Acts 2:38

So clearly, if you think you are a sinner, then, the only way you can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is through repentance for the forgiveness of sin, NOT by receiving Jesus as the Messiah – Jesus IS the Messiah irrespective of whether you received him or not, just as Joe Biden is the current President of the United States whether you received him or not. So, really, what nonsense are you talking about here ???

 

[ElishaElijah]

So clearly, if you think you are a sinner, then, the only way you can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is through repentance for the forgiveness of sin, NOT by receiving Jesus as the Messiah – Jesus IS the Messiah

Receiving Jesus Christ as your Messiah means you repent of your sins and was also part of the whole conversation I was having with another person in the thread. It is amazing to me the assumptions and comments you have made instead of asking or actually reading what was already said. The types of comments you made in your previous post go against the purpose of this forum in my opinion.

 

[JerryMyers]

Receiving Jesus Christ as your Messiah means you repent of your sins and was also part of the whole conversation I was having with another person in the thread.
It is amazing to me the assumptions and comments you have made instead of asking or actually reading what was already said.

That would be an assumption on your part as Jesus himself NEVER preached that pledging your acceptance of him as the Messiah as part of the repentance process.

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus taught his disciples to pray and seek forgiveness DIRECTLY to God Almighty – NOT through him, let alone, pledge their acceptance of Jesus as their Messiah. Common sense should tell you those who rejected Jesus as the Messiah would not even be bothered to repent in the first place, so, it’s amazing that you would make such assumptions and comments WITHOUT actually reading with understanding what Jesus really said on repentance in your own Bible.

The types of comments you made in your previous post go against the purpose of this forum in my opinion.

Really, Elisha?? I am sorry if you feel that way, but then why would you even feel that way ?? Is it because I challenged you on what you wrote ?? Fact is, my comments are nothing personal but they are based on what you wrote and so far what you wrote is just based on assumptions because you cannot back them up with the words of Jesus.

 

[JerryMyers]

“In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:11-14‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Do you even understand what Paul was saying here?? Want to tell me what you understand by Ephesians 1:11-14??

 

[ElishaElijah]

That would be an assumption on your part as Jesus himself NEVER preached that pledging your acceptance of him as the Messiah as part of the repentance process.

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus taught his disciples to pray and seek forgiveness DIRECTLY to God Almighty – NOT through him, let alone, pledge their acceptance of Jesus as their Messiah. Common sense should tell you those who rejected Jesus as the Messiah would not even be bothered to repent in the first place, so, it’s amazing that you would make such assumptions and comments WITHOUT actually reading with understanding what Jesus really said on repentance in your own Bible.


Really, Elisha?? I am sorry if you feel that way, but then why would you even feel that way ?? Is it because I challenged you on what you wrote ?? Fact is, my comments are nothing personal but they are based on what you wrote and so far what you wrote is just based on assumptions because you cannot back them up with the words of Jesus.

They are backed up if you bothered to read the previous posts.
So, really, what nonsense are you talking about here ???Nothing personal
Post #1259 and others, but why bother talking to people like you?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Do you even understand what Paul was saying here?? Want to tell me what you understand by Ephesians 1:11-14??

Yes I do understand but you obviously don’t, are you born again and a believer yourself?

 

[JerryMyers]

They are backed up if you bothered to read the previous posts.
So, really, what nonsense are you talking about here ???Nothing personal
Post #1259 and others, but why bother talking to people like you?

If Post #1259 and others are your best examples of you backing up your comments of what Jesus preached, then, you are just embarrassing yourself. You need to be more specific than that, Elisha. For example, if you believe pledging your acceptance of Jesus as your Messiah is part of the repentance process as taught by Jesus, then, you need to show me from your own Bible, where exactly did Jesus say or even imply that, else, without Jesus’ own words to back your claims, you are just making assumptions.

 

[JerryMyers]

Yes I do understand but you obviously don’t, are you born again and a believer yourself?

Well, if you said I obviously don’t understand what Paul was talking about in Ephesians 1:11-14, then, enlighten me with your understanding – surely, that should be easy for you since you claimed you do understand what Paul was talking about in that passage.

 

[ElishaElijah]

If Post #1259 and others are your best examples of you backing up your comments of what Jesus preached, then, you are just embarrassing yourself. You need to be more specific than that, Elisha. For example, if you believe pledging your acceptance of Jesus as your Messiah is part of the repentance process as taught by Jesus, then, you need to show me from your own Bible, where exactly did Jesus say or even imply that, else, without Jesus’ own words to back your claims, you are just making assumptions.

Does my testimony mention repenting of sin? Yes
Are you born again and received eternal life?

 

[ElishaElijah]

If Post #1259 and others are your best examples of you backing up your comments of what Jesus preached, then, you are just embarrassing yourself. You need to be more specific than that, Elisha. For example, if you believe pledging your acceptance of Jesus as your Messiah is part of the repentance process as taught by Jesus, then, you need to show me from your own Bible, where exactly did Jesus say or even imply that, else, without Jesus’ own words to back your claims, you are just making assumptions.