So Jesus is not God?

[JerryMyers]

Being filled with the fullness of God in Ephesians 3:19 is not comparable to the divinity of Jesus mentioned in Colossians 2:9

And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The fullness of the Godhead doesn't bodily dwell in a believer. To interpret the correct meaning of Bible verses, you have to read the context.

See what I mean when I said you keep listening to the words of other people and not to the words of Jesus ? Colossians 2:9 came from Paul, not Jesus.

 

[Skywalker]

See what I mean when I said you keep listening to the words of other people and not to the words of Jesus ? Colossians 2:9 came from Paul, not Jesus.

Paul became a follower of Jesus after he saw him on the road to Damascus when he was living a life of persecuting Christians. Paul had nothing to gain by following Jesus. He went to jail, and he easily could have recanted believing in Jesus but he didn't.

 

[Skywalker]

By saying “I and my father are one”, Jesus IS indicating he’s in unity with God’s mission and plans !!

Let me say it again - If you understand “I and my Father are one’ means Jesus is saying he’s God, then was Jesus praying to God to make all his disciples Gods too when he said “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them MAY BE ONE, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that YOU HAVE SENT ME. I have given them the glory that you gave me, THAT THEY BE ONE AS WE ARE ONE— I in them and you in me—SO THAT THEY MAY BE BROUGHT TO COMPLETE UNITY. Then the world will know that YOU SENT ME and have loved them even as you have loved me” – John 17:20-23 ?

The phrase ‘AS WE ARE ONE’ is a reference to Jesus’ “I and my Father are one’. Why did Jesus want his disciples to be one just as he and God are one ? So that they are all in the state of complete unity with God’s plans and only then, the world will know it was God who sent Jesus, NOT that Jesus sent himself to the world – it’s all there in John 17:20-23 !! It’s mind-boggling that you keep listening to other people's words and keep harping Jesus is God when Jesus’ own words in your own scripture said otherwise !!

None of the prophets in the Old Testament said I and the Father are one. They were in unity with God's mission and plans in that they were sent to warm people to repent, similar to what Jesus did, but they never said that they and the Father were one.

 

[JerryMyers]

Paul became a follower of Jesus after he saw him on the road to Damascus when he was living a life of persecuting Christians. Paul had nothing to gain by following Jesus. He went to jail, and he easily could have recanted believing in Jesus but he didn't.

You sure Paul met the real Jesus on that wilderness road to Damascus ??

Two red flags that tell us why Paul could not have met the real Jesus but he met an impostor Jesus -

One, Jesus warned his disciples of deceivers and impostors who will come after he’s gone claiming they are the Messiah/Christ. There’s no record in the Bible of anyone else who came after Jesus was gone claiming he’s the Messiah/Christ EXCEPT that ‘Jesus’ whom Paul met on that wilderness road.

Two, Jesus said this impostor ‘Jesus’ will deceive many people, even the elects. To deceive many people, especially the elects, you have to be a dominant and highly influential individual, and Paul is such a man and this impostor ‘Jesus’ knew this and he chose Paul so that he can deceive many people through Paul and the rest is history.

 

[JerryMyers]

None of the prophets in the Old Testament said I and the Father are one. They were in unity with God's mission and plans in that they were sent to warm people to repent, similar to what Jesus did, but they never said that they and the Father were one.

What is a prophet ? In simple terms, a prophet is one who is chosen and given the authority by God to convey His Message and His truth to the people. To be able to do that, these prophets, whether they said it or not, are one with God, or as Jesus put it, “I and my Father are one”.

I just don’t understand why you keep believing Jesus is God when Jesus in his prayer to God, said, “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” – John 17:3.

From what Jesus has said here, it's CRYSTAL CLEAR that there's only ONE TRUE God, AND there's one Jesus Christ who this ONE TRUE God had sent !! So, why are you still ignoring Jesus’ words and denying yourself the eternal life by listening to the words of other people???!!

 

[Skywalker]

You sure Paul met the real Jesus on that wilderness road to Damascus ??

Two red flags that tell us why Paul could not have met the real Jesus but he met an impostor Jesus -

One, Jesus warned his disciples of deceivers and impostors who will come after he’s gone claiming they are the Messiah/Christ. There’s no record in the Bible of anyone else who came after Jesus was gone claiming he’s the Messiah/Christ EXCEPT that ‘Jesus’ whom Paul met on that wilderness road.

Two, Jesus said this impostor ‘Jesus’ will deceive many people, even the elects. To deceive many people, especially the elects, you have to be a dominant and highly influential individual, and Paul is such a man and this impostor ‘Jesus’ knew this and he chose Paul so that he can deceive many people through Paul and the rest is history.

That verse is talking about beliefs that refer to there being a Messiah but that Messiah is not a Savior. Beliefs like that include Matreiya and the belief of a political figure Messiah who is not divine, and the view that Jesus will be the Messiah who will declare himself to be a non Christian. The Devil's Messiah

Revelation 13:4, “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast?”

Satan is preparing the masses of the world to embrace the soon coming Antichrist, the Devil's Messiah. The world will sinfully look to the Antichrist as a Messiah to save them from all their economic and social woes.

Revelation 13:4 teaches that the Dragon [Satan] gives power to the Beast [the Antichrist]. So we see the Dragon, the Antichrist and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13).

The Bible says that the wicked world will worship the Antichrist. We read in Daniel 11:36-39 that the Antichrist will seek the worship of the world, regarding neither the God of the Bible, nor any other god . . .

“And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.”

The “god of forces” refers to the god of New Age, which teaches that God is merely an energy force that permeates the universe, composing all things, and can be manipulated through meditation to become gods ourselves. Anytime you hear someone talking about spiritual matters without quoting Scriptures, run! Anyone who speaks of God as being energy, a life force or the power within, they're a New Ager. The God of the Bible is a Person.

 

[RabbiO]

The Devil's Messiah

Every time you cite to an antisemitic website I’m going to call you out on it. There is a difference between disagreement and hate and you keep referencing sites that deal in hate. The simple truth is, if you play with a skunk long enough you eventually.......

I should point out that this particular website is a cesspool of hate, not directed solely toward Jews. Just one example is its description of Baha’i as coming from the pits of hell. However, I will leave it to the members of the forum who are part of other faith traditions to rise to the defense of those traditions as they deem necessary.

 

[JerryMyers]

That verse is talking about beliefs that refer to there being a Messiah but that Messiah is not a Savior. Beliefs like that include Matreiya and the belief of a political figure Messiah who is not divine, and the view that Jesus will be the Messiah who will declare himself to be a non Christian. The Devil's Messiah

What nonsense are you talking about ???! I am referring to Jesus warning his disciples to be wary of those who will come after he’s gone, claiming to be him and the only person who came and claimed to be the Christ is that imposter ‘Jesus’ whom Paul met on that wilderness road to Damascus. So, stop twisting Jesus’ words into something else !

 

[Skywalker]

What nonsense are you talking about ???! I am referring to Jesus warning his disciples to be wary of those who will come after he’s gone, claiming to be him and the only person who came and claimed to be the Christ is that imposter ‘Jesus’ whom Paul met on that wilderness road to Damascus. So, stop twisting Jesus’ words into something else !

Jesus warned against false prophets. Matthew 7:15

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Those are people who deny the divinity of Jesus. The Jesus who people believe in but not in Him being divine is a false Christ. False Christs

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." —Matthew 24:24

The Bible warns us that in the last days in which we live there will be many false Christs-those who claim to be Christ but who are imposters. Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5). We who profess to be Christians must take heed. We must be very careful that we are not deceived. Our calling is to trust, love, and follow the true Christ and Him only. We may have nothing to do with the false Christs who are so numerous in our day.

 

[Skywalker]

Every time you cite to an antisemitic website I’m going to call you out on it. There is a difference between disagreement and hate and you keep referencing sites that deal in hate. The simple truth is, if you play with a skunk long enough you eventually.......

I should point out that this particular website is a cesspool of hate, not directed solely toward Jews. Just one example is its description of Baha’i as coming from the pits of hell. However, I will leave it to the members of the forum who are part of other faith traditions to rise to the defense of those traditions as they deem necessary.

A lot of people believe that there will be a Messiah, but that Messiah is not the Creator and Savior talked about in the Bible. The belief that the Messiah will be a political figure or will tell the Christians that they were were wrong and Jesus will declare himself to be a Muslim are all beliefs that minimize the divinity of the Messiah. There's so much evidence that Jesus is real that it can't be denied, so people will say that he was a good man, a prophet or even the Messiah, but not God. People are okay with believing in Jesus as long as they don't have to believe that they are sinners who need a Savior.

 

[JerryMyers]

Jesus warned against false prophets. Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Those are people who deny the divinity of Jesus. The Jesus who people believe in but not in Him being divine is a false Christ. False Christs

False prophets got nothing to do with Jesus. False prophets have been around throughout the Ages. Jesus knew this and that’s why Jesus warned his disciples NOT to be easily misled by these people. Not only Jesus knew of false prophets, he also knew some of these false prophets will even claim to be him and that’s why Jesus also warned his disciples to be wary of those who will come claiming to be him and the only person who came and claimed to be the Christ soon after Jesus departure is that imposter ‘Jesus’ whom Paul met on that wilderness road to Damascus. Yet you ignored Jesus words and his warnings, and that’s why despite Jesus’ own words of who the true God is, you STILL claim Jesus is God !!

 

[Muffled]

An attempt to explain the relationship, maybe. To say God is a ‘3-in-1’ God is blasphemy because God is the ABSOLUTE ONE, not a one-team God made up of 3 god members – that’s simply nonsense !

I believe you are correct. The Trinity is God in three persons not three persons in God.

 

[Muffled]

If Jesus, or anyone, said ‘I and my Father are one’ to indicate that he and God are one and the same person, that’s blasphemy by any standard. If a person or Jesus said that they are one with God to indicate that they are in unity with God’s Mission and Plans, that’s NOT blasphemy. That should be very clear.

I believe that is false. God saying He is one with Himself is not blasphemy. If a human were to say that it would be blasphemy.

 

[Skywalker]

Every time you cite to an antisemitic website I’m going to call you out on it. There is a difference between disagreement and hate and you keep referencing sites that deal in hate. The simple truth is, if you play with a skunk long enough you eventually.......

I should point out that this particular website is a cesspool of hate, not directed solely toward Jews. Just one example is its description of Baha’i as coming from the pits of hell. However, I will leave it to the members of the forum who are part of other faith traditions to rise to the defense of those traditions as they deem necessary.

Numbers 23 and 1 Samuel 15 say God is not a man. God is invisible and cannot be seen, and yet He's seen at different times. The elders of Israel-74 people, see the God of Israel on Mount Sinai, in Exodus the 24th chapter. How is it that God is unseen and yet seen? It's through his Son. He's complex in His unity. The memra is a reference to God being complex in His unity. MEMRA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

—Biblical Data:

In Scripture "the word of the Lord" commonly denotes the speech addressed to patriarch or prophet (Gen. xv. 1; Num. xii. 6, xxiii. 5; I Sam. iii. 21; Amos v. 1-8); but frequently it denotes also the creative word: "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made" (Ps. xxxiii. 6; comp. "For He spake, and it was done"; "He sendeth his word, and melteth them [the ice]"; "Fire and hail; snow, and vapors; stormy wind fulfilling his word"; Ps. xxxiii. 9, cxlvii. 18, cxlviii. 8). In this sense it is said, "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven" (Ps. cxix. 89). "The Word," heard and announced by the prophet, often became, in the conception of the seer, an efficacious power apart from God, as was the angel or messenger of God: "The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel" (Isa. ix. 7 [A. V. 8], lv. 11); "He sent his word, and healed them" (Ps. cvii. 20); and comp. "his word runneth very swiftly" (Ps. cxlvii. 15).

 

[ToGodorNottoGod]

In Ephesians 3:19 Paul said everyone should be filled with “all the fullness of God,” – does that mean Paul wanted everyone to be God ???

To have the fullness of God simply means to feel the presence of God in oneself, and Jesus, being a prophet of God definitely felt or filled with the fullness of God in him. In Ephesians 3:19, Paul prayed that every one too should feel or have the presence or fullness of God in themselves too.

The Greek Pleroma means just what it says, Pleroma, the fullness. As the Expositor's Greek Testament notes, "In that dwelling lies the possibility of our growing in moral excellence on to the very limit of all that is in God Himself...to be filled with all spiritual excellence even to the measure of the complete perfection that is in God Himself. - this is the sweep of what Paul in his prayer desires for these Ephesians..." (vol. 3: 317, note 19 on Ephesians 3:19)

It is not merely to feel God's presence. The Greek is strong here in saying the entire fullness of God even up to His own perfection can be in us.

 

[JerryMyers]

The Greek Pleroma means just what it says, Pleroma, the fullness. As the Expositor's Greek Testament notes, "In that dwelling lies the possibility of our growing in moral excellence on to the very limit of all that is in God Himself...to be filled with all spiritual excellence even to the measure of the complete perfection that is in God Himself. - this is the sweep of what Paul in his prayer desires for these Ephesians..." (vol. 3: 317, note 19 on Ephesians 3:19)

It is not merely to feel God's presence. The Greek is strong here in saying the entire fullness of God even up to His own perfection can be in us.

Well, unless specifically mentioned, to feel God’s presence IS to feel the entire fullness of God as God doesn’t come in small packages!

 

[ToGodorNottoGod]

Well, unless specifically mentioned, to feel God’s presence IS to feel the entire fullness of God as God doesn’t come in small packages!

Have ye not read and understood the scripture where God appears as a still small voice, not in the grander, greater lightning or mighty magnificent earthquake? God appears in many diverse ways... it is simply not the fullness of God compared to Enoch's transformation astonishingly portrayed in the Book of Enoch, or in the Merkhavah literature of the mystics of Judaism. Feeling God in many various ways has been completely established, and it is not always an entire fullness. I think you are not grasping that. Not a criticism, just an observation. God certainly has and does come in small packages just like there are small miracles performed, and then great miracles that are mind boggling.

 

[JerryMyers]

Have ye not read and understood the scripture where God appears as a still small voice, not in the grander, greater lightning or mighty magnificent earthquake? God appears in many diverse ways... it is simply not the fullness of God compared to Enoch's transformation astonishingly portrayed in the Book of Enoch, or in the Merkhavah literature of the mystics of Judaism. Feeling God in many various ways has been completely established, and it is not always an entire fullness. I think you are not grasping that. Not a criticism, just an observation. God certainly has and does come in small packages just like there are small miracles performed, and then great miracles that are mind boggling.

Sure, feeling God can be in various ways….. and that’s why I said it, bold it, underlined it – ‘unless specifically mentioned....’........

Have ye missed it or ye did not grasp the meaning of ‘unless specifically mentioned’?? Not a criticism, just an observation.

 

[ToGodorNottoGod]

Sure, feeling God can be in various ways….. and that’s why I said it, bold it, underlined it – ‘unless specifically mentioned....’........

Have ye missed it or ye did not grasp the meaning of ‘unless specifically mentioned’?? Not a criticism, just an observation.

Lol.....touche amigo, touche.....

 

[JerryMyers]

I believe you are correct. The Trinity is God in three persons not three persons in God.

I believe you do not know how trinity is defined in Christianity.

Merriam-Webster dictionary defined trinity as ‘: the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma’.

Even so, don’t you know according to your own scripture, God dwells in all of us, NOT just in 3 persons ??