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So Jesus is not God?

Muffled

Jesus in me
Correct, thus I think it's reasonably clear that the authors of the NT personified the HS as if it were a person, which is a technique often used in such early Jewish writings.

Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

I believe if God speaks then that is a personal characteristic which then makes Him a person by that definition.

I believe then you are saying that the Bible is an invention of man and not inspired by God. That is not how I understand it.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
You bluntly asked me,” And where did you get this nonsense from?” Well, I read the Bible, and not just one version, but 60 some versions at biblegate.com, ebible.org, and other similar websites, not to mention the five different bibles I have next to me on my desk. I never found a place where God is defined as a Trinity within biblical scripture. So please advise me where in the Bible scripture you have found, read, and learned that God is a “Trinity.” Please cite for me the Book, Chapter, and Verse, so you and I can be on the same page. And by the way, I don’t want a scholar’s supposition, his conjectural thinking or a theologian’s assumptions about another theologian’s belief. Nonetheless, I read your reply and you have already admitted that the “doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit in the books that constitute the New Testament.” You apparently extracted this academically inspired, euphemistic language from Wikipedia, but in plain English, you are clearly confessing that no NT scripture exists. And in your next sentence, you respond and report to me “The doctrine of the Trinity was first formulated among the early Christians and fathers of the Church as early Christians attempted to understand the relationship between Jesus and God in their scriptural documents and prior traditions...” -- Trinity - Wikipedia

So you call my input “nonsense” and yet, you reply to me by agreeing with almost everything I said!!! I reported that third & fourth century church leaders believed a trinity existed; for your information, they were “EARLY Christians and fathers of the church’ the same as you reported. At John 5:37, Jesus reports to the crowd about God and says” Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.” If this is the case, then how could His voice be heard at the Baptism and Transfiguration. This only happens in the synoptic gospels, because Lucius fabricated the synoptic gospels and all the fictional drama scenes with God’s voice from heaven or a cloud.



In conclusion, I only want one thing from you: Book, chapter and verse where the Trinity is clearly mentioned in Bible scripture. I bet that you will never find it, but if you do, I will eat crow.

I believe this is it:

John 14:18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I believe then you are saying that the Bible is an invention of man and not inspired by God.
That's not correct, but what I don't believe is that the Bible is completely inerrant.

When it comes to "Divine inspiration", theologians are all over the place on this, and there simply is not enough evidence to somehow establish any one of them as being correct.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
That's not correct, but what I don't believe is that the Bible is completely inerrant.

When it comes to "Divine inspiration", theologians are all over the place on this, and there simply is not enough evidence to somehow establish any one of them as being correct.
There is only evidence that the trinity was taught by some groups of Christians called ‘Trinitarians’. The evidence is clear and true … but that does not mean that the trinity doctrine was truth.

Jesuz foretold that another doctrine - a false doctrine - purporting to be what he taught would branch forth from the church… why is anyone surprised when it is shown to be so. What do you imagine the whore in Revelation is symbolising!?

Jesus never taught a trinity… never mentioned three persons together as God, in fact, he expressly stated in prayer to the Father:
  • ‘Father…. This means eternal life that they believe in you, the only true God, and in Jesus Christ whom you sent.’
When a trinitarian is asked how they interpret that verse they variously reply:
  • ‘Jesus did not want to to point to himself as being God but it is clear (?) that he included himself as being ‘only God’…!!!???
  • The verse clearly states that Jesus is also the only God…
  • ‘So is the Father is the only God then is Jesus our only Lord’ and then point to God being called ‘Lord’ in the Old Testament and Jesus being called ‘Lord’ in the New Testament… of course, they don’t define what ‘Lord’ means - which is the same case that they don’t define what ‘God’ means… and for good reason for them not to define if to their congregation
There are as many ideologies of trinity as there are Trinitarians who claim their version is truth… which goes along the lines of:
  • ‘I never heard that [some other trinity fallacy] before and it’s clearly nonsense.’
So, this means that whenever we show a trinity claim to be a fallacy a trinitarian to whom we reveal it to denies it as a trinity belief THEREFORE you cannot catch and hold a trinitarian such that they will admit trinity is false.

We Can But Only Try - and keep trying.

Trinity cannot fall until Jesus Christ returns - it is only he who can defeat this false ideology. Our job is to try to rescue as many as possible so they are not caught in the dragnet. But don’t despair if your efforts are thwarted - Satan is subtle and will test your resolve by forcing new false ideologies in answer to the truth that you present.

Perseverance and prayer through Jesus Christ to the Father is called for!
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

I believe if God speaks then that is a personal characteristic which then makes Him a person by that definition.

I believe then you are saying that the Bible is an invention of man and not inspired by God. That is not how I understand it.
I read an auspicious book some time ago… It spoke to me loudly of the danger of sinning!

I read another book that guided me to where I was going. I was led by that book!

I opened my exercise book after some time away and it reminded me of what I had learnt and what was to be learnt.

Hmmm… books… persons?

My computer spoke to me and said, ‘You have new Mail waiting!’… a person spoke to me!!
 

Bree

Active Member
A question for the Unitarians and other Christians who doubt Jesus is God:

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Notice that it is GOD that demonstrates His love towards us but it is CHRIST who dies.

Let's pretend Jesus is NOT God, just like you claim. How is it GOD showing his love toward us by asking someone else to die?

If the Warden comes to your house and requests you die for someone who's currently in jail, someone who knows and confesses he's guilty, would you consider this an act of love by the Warden?

Remember, I'm not asking if you are loving by agreeing to die for the convicted felon, I'm asking if you feel the Warden is showing his love for you by asking.

This is extremely easy to answer if Jesus is God. But if he's not, I wonder how it's answered.

Thanks for playing!

your illustration suggests the warden is asking a stranger to die for the prisoner. A stranger dying would not cause any loss to the warden.

But in the case of God, he asked his own firstborn son to die so that others may live. At great cost to himself, God offered his own son as a redeemer of others.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
your illustration suggests the warden is asking a stranger to die for the prisoner. A stranger dying would not cause any loss to the warden.

But in the case of God, he asked his own firstborn son to die so that others may live. At great cost to himself, God offered his own son as a redeemer of others.
Does anyone remember that God is the creator of spirits?

Does anyone remember that no one is truly ‘dead’ to God as long as the spirit of that person is not destroyed?

Does anyone know why Jesus was to die?

God REQUIRED the death (Earthly existence - not destruction of the spirit) of an unblemished by sin, innocent, holy and righteous man.

This ‘death’ was to pay for the sin of Adam, who brought sin into the world and CONDEMNED ALL MANKIND TO DEATH - even ETERNAL DEATH (death/destruction of the spirit). There was no resurrection unless the death of the ‘Lamb’ took place.

Since the offspring, the procreated children, of all of mankind through the lineage of Adam, was sinful, no such offspring could fulfil the role God required.

God gave time for such a son to emerge but the nearest one came was David. But David sinned by having blood on his hands when he condemned an innocent captain in his army to death so that he, David, could take his wife. But because David so heavily paid the price for his sin, God forgave him and continued with his position as beloved of God, giving him a Son and great power and authority over the kingdom of Israel. But God refused him to build the ‘earthly dwelling place’, the temple, in Jerusalem because of David’s sin even after forgiving him (the ‘blood’ is never completely washed from the hand … Lady MacBeth)

But because God lived David so much, God set the throne of David symbolically as the seat that the future seat of the kingdom of the Son of God who fulfilled God’s requirements.

But God had promised that sin would be destroyed by the seed of a woman. So, after PROVING sadly that no son of Adam was forthcoming as the ‘Saviour/Messiah’, God put into action the plan he had made and prophesied:
  • ‘But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.’ (Gal 4:5-6)
God created a second ADAM from the SEED of Mary the Virgin. Sin is propagated through the seed of the Father, the man. So God chose to create the LAST ADAM from a sinless seed (egg) of Mary and ENLIVEN it by the overshadowing of his Holy Spirit … THEREFORE the child to be born will be HOLY, and called, “Son of God”. You should therefore see that like the first Adam, created by the inert dust of the earth and enlivened by God’s holySpirit, so Jesus was created likewise by the inert egg of Mary and the enlivening of the holy spiritual of God… So BOTH Adams were born holy, sinless, righteous because no sin was in their spirit.

And, unlike the first Adam, Jesus remained sinless and loyal to God’s commands even under the most testing of conditions: weak, tired, hungry, thirsty, fainting, hallucinating… He overcame the temptation to use his given powers (see later) to save himself - thus making himself the perfect one for sacrifice: selflessness to the commandments of God: Worship the Lord your God and only to him show sacred service… After he overcame the temptations he was ‘SENT’ into the world.
But be careful where it says, ‘Sent’. Jesus was not ‘SENT’ by God until after he was anointed - that is, not until he became ‘the Christ’ (The anointed one), as is spoken by Jesus, himself:
  • “what about the one whom the Father set apart (#1) as his very own (#2) and sent into the world (#3)? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (John 10:36)
#1: To be ‘Set Apart’ is what ‘Anointing’ is. Consecrated, Sanctified… for priesthood or Kingship (Jesus was anointed to both!)

#2: ‘His very own’, means ‘Chosen’. God chose Jesus to be the sacrificed lamb (See Isaiah 42:1)

#3: ‘Sent into the world’… This is when Jesus STARTED his preaching the word of God, the testimony of the Father. Do not believe the trinity ideology that says Jesus was ‘sent by God FROM HEAVEN’.

Notice that there is no report of Jesus doing ANYTHING of a miraculous nature until after he was TEMPTED AND TESTED in the wilderness, after he received the Holy Spirit of God at his anointing, as an apostle wrote:
  • “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.“ (Acts 10:37-38)
Jesus received the FULL MEASURE of the power of the Holy Spirit of God. And after receiving this He ‘went about doing good’ because ‘God’ was with him.

Incredibly, Trinitarians say Jesus IS God despite the apostle saying that ‘God’ was WITH HIM (meaning ‘Supporting him via GOD’s own Holy Spirit… remember John 1:1 where trinity says Jesus was God and was WITH (next to) GOD…)

At the last, Jesus knew he was close to his sacrifice in death. It must have been incredibly hard for him to continue but he put the command of God ahead of his personal feelings and endured - the reward beckoned him - the reward for what he was anointed for, set aside as ‘High Priest to God’. What higher accolade could be accredited to a human Being.

But even so, in the Garden on the last night, Jesus nearly stumbled, saying, ‘Father, if there could be another way?’ This, he did wondering if indeed God could raise him up again…

So there it is….

Just as Jesus (and Elijah, and Elisha) had raised the dead but only to temporary life (the raised all died later in time, obviously!) Jesus considered if his Father could raise him up permanently… He sweated blood from the sheer stress - something virtually none of us could even begin to understand or comprehend!

But he recovered himself saying, ‘not my Will, but your Will!’. Here is another kick in the teeth for trinity claims. If Jesus was God why would he sweat blood and have a Will different from GOD’s…!!!?

So, even though God required the sacrifice of a sinless, holy, righteous and innocent man to offset the sin of the first man, God, by his wisdom and power and foreknowledge would raise up the Lamb again IF the lamb allowed himself TO BE SACRIFICED.

The pain for God was that he did not want humans to have to prove themselves this way. Scriptures refers to this,
saying:
  • “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. Then I said, “Here I am, I have come— it is written about me in the scroll. I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.” (Psalm 40:6-8)
God did not desire a sacrifice and offerings (The scapegoat and annual sacrifices the Jews performed as a substitute). When Jesus was finally CALLED to duty he did not baulk from it but rose up and went seeking John the Baptist and afterwards the temptation in the wilderness before facing Satan directly on. The prophesy then has Jesus stating that he desires to do the Will of God (how is he God if he is seeking to do the Will of God?)

Note that Hebrews 10:7-8 quotes the verse above and adds:
  • “He does away with the first to establish the second” (Heb 10:9)
This is a reference to Adam as the first ‘Son of God (Luke 3:38) being dismissed as such in order for Jesus to be established as ‘Son of God’. The sin of the first is wiped away by the righteousness of the second.
  • “But Samuel replied: “Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.” (1 Sam 15:22)
God preferred obedience to his laws and commands rather than sacrifices. Jesus Christ showed perfect obedience to God’s laws and Commands and thus by his sacrifice wiped away the further fruitless sacrifices and saved mankind from the eternal death caused by the sin of Adam. The reward: eternal life as the king over creation and the high priest of God!
 
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“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.”
Colossians 2:9
“but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:2-3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-20‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Do you believe any created being could be perfectly represent The Eternal God, the Father, the Almighty? No created being could say if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father, and be telling the truth. Only God the Son and God the Holy Spirit can represent God the Father perfectly because they are God and Eternal.
 

TiggerII

Active Member
"He that hath seen [horao] me hath seen [horao] the Father"

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, vol. 4, p. 380, tells us:
“What is seen in a vision is a revelation from God. Statements that human beings have seen or will see God Himself do not refer to a perception of a physical aspect of God by human physical senses but a process of coming to some amount of understanding of God, often just a simple realization of His greatness or some other aspect of His nature, either by a revelatory vision (Isa. 6:15; Ezk. 1:26-28), … or by their acquaintance with Jesus Christ (Jn 14:9, cf. 1:18).” – Eerdmans, 1991.

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 3, 1986 printing, Zondervan, pp. 513, 515, 518, explains the meanings of horao.
Horao means “... become aware (Gen. 37:1). (b) figuratively it comes to be used of intellectual or spiritual perception .... It also means ... attend to, know or have experienced (Deut. 11:2), or be concerned about something (Gen. 37:14; Is. 5:12).” - p. 513. - - “Besides the general meaning of to know, horao and its derivatives can mean to obtain knowledge,...." - p. 515.

This trinitarian reference also states:
“For the NT God is utterly invisible (Jn 6:46; 1 Tim. 1:17; 6:16; Col. 1:15) ... yet the resurrection narratives especially stress that the risen Christ is visible.” - p. 518. Also see Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12.

Professor Joseph H. Thayer (who was “the dean of New Testament scholars in America” - Dictionary of American Biography, Vol. IX) in his Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (“a standard in the field”) also defines horao with similar meanings and specifically tells us that John 14:7, 9 is in the category of “2. to see with the mind, to perceive, to KNOW.”
In discussing this meaning of horao, Thayer writes:

“to know God’s will, 3 John 11; from the intercourse and influence of Christ to have come to see (know) God’s majesty, saving purposes, and WILL, Jn. xiv. 7, 9”. - p. 451, Baker Book House, 1984 printing.

We can understand, then, why the very trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, 1985, Zondervan, explains John 14:7 this way:
“Once more Jesus stresses the intimate connection between the Father and himself. Jesus brought a full revelation of the Father (cf. 1:18), so that the apostles had real knowledge of him.” - footnote for John 14:7.

Noted New Testament scholar, Dr. William Barclay, also comments on John 14:7-9:
“The Jews [including Jesus, of course, and those to whom he spoke] would count it as an article of faith that no man had seen God at any time .... To see Jesus is to see what God is like.” - p. 159. “‘He who has seen me has seen the Father,’ Jesus is the revelation of God.” - p. 161.
And,
“The danger of the Christian faith is that we may set up Jesus as a kind of secondary God. But Jesus himself insists that the things he said and the things he did did not come from his own initiative or his own power or his own knowledge but from God. His words were God’s voice speaking to men; His deeds were God’s power flowing through him to men. He was the channel by which God came to men.” - The Daily Study Bible Series: The Gospel of John, pp. 159, 161, 162, Vol. 2, The Westminster Press, 1975.

Origen, the greatest and most knowledgeable early Christian scholar of the NT Greek explained John 14:9:
“But ... God is invisible .... Whereas, on the contrary, God, the Father of Christ, is said to be seen, because ‘he who sees the Son,’ he says, ‘sees also the Father.’ This certainly would press us hard [to explain], were the expression not understood by us more correctly of understanding, and not of seeing. For he who has understood the Son will understand the Father also.” - p. 277, vol. iv, The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Eerdmans Publishing.

The same kind of biblical understanding may be seen at
Matthew 25:40 King James Version (KJV)
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

And

Mark 9:37 King James Version (KJV)
37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

So there is no real reason to insist that John 14:7, 9 shows Jesus as being equally God with his Father. The probability is that, in harmony with the usage of the time, Jesus was merely saying that what he spoke came from God, and what he did is what God directed. He meant that understanding what he did and said was like knowing (“seeing”) God (as, in a similar sense, those who literally saw angels sent by God and speaking God’s words were said to have “seen God” - see the SF study). Jesus is totally in harmony with (“one” with) the Father in purpose (see the ONE study) so that we can “see” the Father’s will in Jesus.

As in all other “Jesus is equally God” evidence, we find that the trinitarian “proof” is a scripture that can honestly be translated or interpreted in at least one other way which would prove no such thing!

We never find a statement clearly stating that “Jesus is equally and fully God with the Father and the HS” in the entire Bible.

And yet other other essential knowledge that leads to eternal life is clearly and repeatedly emphasized: “Jesus is the Christ [Messiah],” “our savior and king” - the one who appears before God in heaven in our behalf, the one through whom we must approach God. Surely this most important information in the Bible of exactly who God is and exactly who Jesus is would not be hidden from us in the slightest degree!
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.”
Colossians 2:9
“but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:2-3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-20‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Do you believe any created being could be perfectly represent The Eternal God, the Father, the Almighty? No created being could say if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father, and be telling the truth. Only God the Son and God the Holy Spirit can represent God the Father perfectly because they are God and Eternal.

I"m not understanding your post. Maybe you can explain it to me in another way......
Your using words like, "God the son" and "God the Holy Spirit". What is that? I say that because I"m not reading that in the bible. I'm only seeing that in your posts..... Out of all of the words in scripture, why do you feel that you have "makeup" words to make a point? Not understanding that......

But anyhow...

You also mentioned that no created being could perfectly represent God. Jesus did. He represented his father perfectly. That is why he said, if you have seen me, you've seen my father. Jesus had every right to say that too. Jesus is saying, look at me.... Look at what I do. My actions and the things I do are from God. Jesus is not saying that he is God. Look at Deut 18. Then you understand what Jesus is really saying... Look at what was told to Moses in that chapter. You'll throw the trinity right out the window!!!!!
 
You also mentioned that no created being could perfectly represent God. Jesus did. He represented his father perfectly.
He did is correct, because only God the Son could represent God the Father perfectly. Even the Jews recognized what Jesus was saying, that He was God.
“My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.””
‭‭John‬ ‭10:29-33‬ ‭ESV‬‬
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Science is said by humans as humans.

It said no man was God.

Men in status said I own everything. Equal humans live first ignored. Just humans.

Proved their behaviour wrong claiming any body form taken from God I now own. O earth plus nature.

Yet the body god just existed owner.

So greedy in fact they said I own nature and food. When it grew naturally for everyone.

Imposed status if I owner greater amounts of anything I am a God.

Was proven wrong.

Especially when a man just a man says I will own the huge energy powers of God.

God certainly taught him a lesson didn't it?

CH Rist rose. Gases that came out of pre existing mass. Mass owned the gases.

Gases are not separate from mass.

Another lesson God owned it's heavens first.

Christ said the lying man. Thesis science.

Sacrificed Christ a body of Christ...yet Christ X mass still existed.

Hence you couldn't say Christ was gone so the teaching said it was earths Jesus of the Christ.

Why it was taught gone and no longer Christ.

Said gods inheritance was Christ and also immaculate just so human liars can't lie.

As liars would pretend they never changed anything. Why it was stated.
I.e. today was j.e. in the past. Example in teaching was Sus meant nose point ^ of ∆ mountain tip had caused it.

Sus scrofa pig or wild boar. Past science used beast symbolisms. Meaning spear head. Symbolic terms.

Symbolism causes you to think about the meaning. Symbolic as rational logic maths was not involved. Cause was.

No answer for a cause chosen against natural when science never copied natural. It's thesis was in fact design machine controlled reaction.

Seems to forget no man owned natural creative reactions in science.

Like saying nothing created. Meaning you can't use theory inferring any state that did exist.

Why Christ existed first holy. Reason man life was hurt Christ was sacrificed hence so was mans life in the Effects.

Cause Christ mass was changed the stable state.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If you ask a theist are you just a human?

If you ask a theist what form of heavens do you live within.

They should say water oxygenated part by pressure status.

Not I live inside the Christ mass gas as you don't live inside Christ gases.

What they ignore.
 
If you ask a theist are you just a human?

If you ask a theist what form of heavens do you live within.

They should say water oxygenated part by pressure status.

Not I live inside the Christ mass gas as you don't live inside Christ gases.

What they ignore.
We think biblically and don’t think in these terms, at least that’s me anyway.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
He did is correct, because only God the Son could represent God the Father perfectly. Even the Jews recognized what Jesus was saying, that He was God.
“My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.””
‭‭John‬ ‭10:29-33‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[Even the Jews recognized what Jesus was saying, that He was God.]
Absolutely not!!!! That's what they throught! Jesus always corrected them on that too.

The Jews didnt understand Jesus and so with you too. Jesus never said that he was God, ever. The Jews didnt understand Jesus's language when he stated that he was the son of God. They thought........ as you do.... if your father is a God, then that automatically makes you a God too. And.... they knew Jesus was a man.. (and that is correct). They completely didnt understand Jesus.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
I do understand and know Jesus because I’ve been born again of the Holy Spirit after I received the gift of Eternal Life through Jesus Christ just like all other believers.

What does born again of the Holy Spirit mean? And you mentioned that you "already received" the gift of eternal life? Just curious.....
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I've been hurt myself in life and I was healed also.

But I can be non religious about it. Knowing gases burning is human science caused. Water oxygen life continuance changed. Energy food in water my body uses burnt.

And ice a saviour is melting as heavens contradicts one saviour.

We cannot contradict saviour wandering star as it's own body forced projects it. But we can contradict the heavens stable state.

Most humans would not even be aware what gas radiation fallout causes and his relieved life is being changed.

As humans designed the effects. Human born of two parents then the image was known to be a visiting human presence that disappears.

It is only a living human experience it is not science.
 
What does born again of the Holy Spirit mean? And you mentioned that you "already received" the gift of eternal life? Just curious.....
30 years ago God delivered me from drugs and alcohol, I cried out to God for help and He delivered me that day. After that I was seeking God and wanted to know Him. A year later is when I was going to a Church and would see the Pastor in town or around and had this intense urge to talk to him and a voice in my mind saying to talk to this guy. I didn’t know what about though. At the time I was thinking that there had to be more to God than just that one experience. So I went in his office and said I have to talk to you about something I just don’t know what. He shared how Jesus died for my sins, was buried and rose from the dead. He asked if I believed that and I said yes. I repented of my sins and made a covenant with God to live for Him, At that moment He filled me with His Spirit and something changed, I was filled and my eyes were opened to the Truth of the Bible and I understood it and couldn’t stop reading. It was all new. This has been 30 years now and God is speaking to me all the time I’m many ways. The Holy Spirit is my guarantee of eternal life and His promise.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
30 years ago God delivered me from drugs and alcohol, I cried out to God for help and He delivered me that day. After that I was seeking God and wanted to know Him. A year later is when I was going to a Church and would see the Pastor in town or around and had this intense urge to talk to him and a voice in my mind saying to talk to this guy. I didn’t know what about though. At the time I was thinking that there had to be more to God than just that one experience. So I went in his office and said I have to talk to you about something I just don’t know what. He shared how Jesus died for my sins, was buried and rose from the dead. He asked if I believed that and I said yes. I repented of my sins and made a covenant with God to live for Him, At that moment He filled me with His Spirit and something changed, I was filled and my eyes were opened to the Truth of the Bible and I understood it and couldn’t stop reading. It was all new. This has been 30 years now and God is speaking to me all the time I’m many ways. The Holy Spirit is my guarantee of eternal life and His promise.

Eternal life isnt guaranteed. Salvation is not unconditional, it is conditional. Paul even said that he didnt even know that he would have eternal life. But he did speak about the hope of eternal life. So what does it mean when it says that we are saved? Many times it says that we are saved if....... which that means there are conditions now to salvation. So what does being saved mean? Are we saved into something? Are we saved out of something? Or are we saved by setting a part for something to come...... Or... all three....

What would your answer be?
 
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