So was God wrong?

[Autodidact]

i wonder what the stats are?
is there a way to find out if this is generally true or is it more odd than usual...

The single greatest predictor of an adult's religion is the religion they were born into. I would think this fact alone would give religionists pause, but apparently not.

 

[Father Heathen]

I agree the enforcement of social standards is where things went wrong.

The problem lies with the enforcement of irrational and unjust ones.

 

[waitasec]

The single greatest predictor of an adult's religion is the religion they were born into. I would think this fact alone would give religionists pause, but apparently not.

you'd think...
i would really like to present some studies done on the subject cause i do enjoy a good squirm....
: hamster :

 

[TheKnight]

No, reason and compassion supersede "cultural norms", and consensus doesn't make it right to victimize the innocent.

You're right, reason supersedes cultural norms. It is reasonable that a society of free individuals makes its own rules to govern itself. Regardless of what others who are external to the society feel about it.

 

[Father Heathen]

You're right, reason supersedes cultural norms. It is reasonable that a society of free individuals makes its own rules to govern itself. Regardless of what others who are external to the society feel about it.

So would you say slavery in 1800's Southern U.S. was acceptable since that was the cultural norm? If you were a slave in that situation would you simply shrug your shoulders and get to tillin' them fields out of respect for their culture?

 

[Jacksnyte]

You're right, reason supersedes cultural norms. It is reasonable that a society of free individuals makes its own rules to govern itself. Regardless of what others who are external to the society feel about it.

And so, following this line of reasoning, if the society you live in says that it is ok to murder innocent humans(women, children, old folks) then it is ok to do so? Sounds like a completely morally bankrupt society to me! If your religious leader were to tell you today that your god commanded you to perform such horrendous acts, would you do as you were commanded?

 

[sojourner]

The single greatest predictor of an adult's religion is the religion they were born into. I would think this fact alone would give religionists pause, but apparently not.

...pause to do what?

 

[Autodidact]

...pause to do what?

to question whether their beliefs are based on anything more than childhood indoctrination.

 

[Father Heathen]

...pause to do what?

To reexamine their own certainty and self-assuredness.

Edit: what she said.

 

[outhouse]

It may have had some inspiration from God,

it may not have had any

 

[sojourner]

to question whether their beliefs are based on anything more than childhood indoctrination.

I wonder if you've taken the time to question whether your own lack of belief is based on anything more than childhood indoctrination?

Don't you think that it's a bit presumptive of you to assume that people who continue in the path of cultural belief are simply "indoctrinated?" That accusation is tired and flimsy.

 

[sojourner]

It occurs to me that, while questioning one's beliefs is healthy, and while skepticism in the grand scheme of things creates a balance between conformity and individual initiative, there comes a point when skepticism becomes rampant and unhealthy, and begins to look like an empty activity designed so that one can hear one's head rattle.

 

[Jacksnyte]

I wonder if you've taken the time to question whether your own lack of belief is based on anything more than childhood indoctrination?

Don't you think that it's a bit presumptive of you to assume that people who continue in the path of cultural belief are simply "indoctrinated?" That accusation is tired and flimsy.

From what I have observed through the years, people do tend to gravitate toward what they were indoctrinated into as a child, even if it was a brief and incomplete indoctrination. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, and today, with libraries of information available at one's fingertips, the number of people defecting to religions other than the one they were brought up in is increasing. Ignorance and fear have been a major reason for people to cling to the familiar. It is becoming harder and harder to have much of an excuse to remain in ignorance.

 

[sojourner]

From what I have observed through the years, people do tend to gravitate toward what they were indoctrinated into as a child, even if it was a brief and incomplete indoctrination. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, and today, with libraries of information available at one's fingertips, the number of people defecting to religions other than the one they were brought up in is increasing. Ignorance and fear have been a major reason for people to cling to the familiar. It is becoming harder and harder to have much of an excuse to remain in ignorance.

Why do you assume that one's remaining in one's childhood belief system must be based either on ignorance or fear? And why do you assume that being reared in a given belief system constitutes "indoctrination?" Don't you think that's an irresponsible generalization?

 

[Autodidact]

I wonder if you've taken the time to question whether your own lack of belief is based on anything more than childhood indoctrination?

Yes, I did. That's why an atheist; I was raised Jewish.

Don't you think that it's a bit presumptive of you to assume that people who continue in the path of cultural belief are simply "indoctrinated?" That accusation is tired and flimsy.

I didn't assume anything. I said it should give them pause to question whether that might be the case. Which is certainly true, at a minimum. I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who think religion X is self-evidently true and rational and the only reasonable belief system were taught to believe that before the age of reason.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Why do you assume that one's remaining in one's childhood belief system must be based either on ignorance or fear? And why do you assume that being reared in a given belief system constitutes "indoctrination?" Don't you think that's an irresponsible generalization?

Not really. It is the difference between being raised with the assumption that one belief system is ultimately correct within an environment that constantly re-enforces this view while discouraging open-mindedness and unbiased information about other belief-systems, and being raised with an open mind and encouragement to study, and make one's own decisions.

 

[Autodidact]

I have yet to encounter atheist parents who bring their children to an atheist hall once a week to sing songs about how God doesn't exist, or who teach their children that they will suffer eternal torment if they decide that God does exist.

 

[Father Heathen]

I wonder if you've taken the time to question whether your own lack of belief is based on anything more than childhood indoctrination?

I was raised as a christian (church of the nazarene.)

 

[Father Heathen]

It occurs to me that, while questioning one's beliefs is healthy, and while skepticism in the grand scheme of things creates a balance between conformity and individual initiative, there comes a point when skepticism becomes rampant and unhealthy, and begins to look like an empty activity designed so that one can hear one's head rattle.

So relying upon logic and evidence as a basis of belief can be unhealthy? What an odd notion. And that blind trust is a positive attribute an even stranger one.

 

[TheKnight]

So would you say slavery in 1800's Southern U.S. was acceptable since that was the cultural norm? If you were a slave in that situation would you simply shrug your shoulders and get to tillin' them fields out of respect for their culture?

It is acceptable for a society to establish its own rules and regulations, regardless of what they may be because a society consists of free individuals who can do whatever they choose. Whether or not I agree with your behavior does not make you any more or less able to perform the behavior I disagree with. Whether or not your behavior is moral is a matter of who you ask. If I disagree enough, then I will do what I can to stop you. If I don't do what I can to stop you, then I obviously don't disagree with your behavior as much as I might claim to.


For those who are in that society they either agree with the rules or they don't, if they do then they obey if they don't then they revolt.

A person's failure to revolt against a society he or she sees as corrupt is a sign of agreement, or at least comfort with the social standards established by the society.

A society is nothing more than a structure established by a group of free individuals seeking to expand protect their freedom. And any society can rule as it pleases regarding any situation. Whether or not I agree does not have anything to do with the society's ability to make it's own rules.

If I really disagree, then I will intervene by whatever means I feel necessary. Otherwise I don't really disagree.

Many attempt to resolve conflict with less than desirable theories of morality. I, on the other hand, see conflict as an inevitable part of interaction between totally free beings with competing or contradictory values.

And so, following this line of reasoning, if the society you live in says that it is ok to murder innocent humans(women, children, old folks) then it is ok to do so? Sounds like a completely morally bankrupt society to me! If your religious leader were to tell you today that your god commanded you to perform such horrendous acts, would you do as you were commanded?

See the above.