So was God wrong?

[Autodidact]

They're not. But you need to remember that spiritual story is, in part, cultural story. And you further need to remember that the Bible is full of the stories of a wide diversity of cultures: Babylonian, Assyrian, Akkadian, Canaanite, Greek, Hebrew. Those who wrote and compiled the stories were unaware of the cultures of the Choctaws, Jains, Japanese and Celts.

So for you, the holy books and oral myths of the Choctaw, Jains, Japanese and Celts are as important and valuable as the Bible? You spend as much time studying them as a source of knowledge about our relationship with God?

 

[Autodidact]

God is never unjust or unrighteous. The Law He gave to Moses was righteous and good. The nation of Israel made a solemn agreement or covenant to do what God required of them. His judicial decisions and laws were for the benefit of all his people, including laws that required execution of evil people. As Sovereign God, Jehovah has the right to decide what is good and what is bad, and as the Creator, has the right to take back the life he gives from those who do evil. This hasn't changed. Most people ignore the part of John 3:16 that says; "in order that everyone exercising faith in [Christ] will not be destroyed." From the moment we are conceived, we are under sentence of death. (Romans 5:12) The life we enjoy is because of God's mercy and his love. Rather than criticize the Creator, we do well to learn what he requires of us. (John 17:3)

btw, I assume that you fundamentally disagree with sojourner, who says that these things never happened, and would not have been righteous or just if they did?

 

[Autodidact]

Yeah, but again, in the 2000 year history of Xy, we're talking about a relatively short pd. of time of oppressive activity that was specifically Xian.

I wouldn't call more than half relatively short, no.

 

[Autodidact]

In reality, that wasn't part of Manifest Destiny.

I'm not talking about Manifest Destiny, which I see as irrelevant. I'm referring to the European destruction of the peoples of the Americas, and the role that christianity played in it.

 

[rusra02]

So for you, killing babies is righteous and just?

Killing babies?

 

[Orias]

What they claim may or may not have anything to do with Xy. Charles Manson's activities, using your definitive criterion here, were "Christian-based," too, which is obviously incorrect.

Actually Charles Manson's doings were influenced by the Beetles' song, "Helter Skelter", hence the whole plan of his called, "Helter Skelter". It was more of a racial movement to start a war, really have nothing at all to do with any religion.

 

[Autodidact]

Killing babies?

Yes, killing babies, like your God orders His soldiers to do in the Bible. Do you consider that righteous and just?

 

[sojourner]

So for you, the holy books and oral myths of the Choctaw, Jains, Japanese and Celts are as important and valuable as the Bible? You spend as much time studying them as a source of knowledge about our relationship with God?

Since all religions are cultural constructs and, ultimately, "avatars" of truth, most people deal with one construct that works best for them. While I certainly don't dismiss another's religious beliefs, realizing that they are just a valid as my own, I usually don't "muddy the waters" in the manner you suggest. I do find some shamanistic and Native American expressions helpful to me, and have immersed myself deeply in the Celtic expression. And I realize that we're all painting the same picture with different colors.

Yes. The mythos of all religions is equally important and valuable. But in order to honor them all, I try not to "mix and match," for doing so would diminish the particularity of each.

 

[sojourner]

I'm not talking about Manifest Destiny, which I see as irrelevant. I'm referring to the European destruction of the peoples of the Americas, and the role that christianity played in it.

Well, that wasn't the argument to which I originally responded. The argument was that Manifest Destiny is a Xian principle, which it clearly is not. I agree. There have been enormous atrocities committed in the name of Xy. I think our biggest mistake was when Xy was imperialized and made the "state religion." It tended to put the myth and the parabolic out of balance.

 

[sojourner]

Actually Charles Manson's doings were influenced by the Beetles' song, "Helter Skelter", hence the whole plan of his called, "Helter Skelter". It was more of a racial movement to start a war, really have nothing at all to do with any religion.

Actually, Charles Manson's doings were influenced by the Beatles' song. I don't know who these so-called "Beetles" are... but they obviously plagiarized the work of a highly-respected musical act.

:band:

( Pictured above: Ringo, George, John, Paul)

 

[Orias]

Actually, Charles Manson's doings were influenced by the Beatles' song. I don't know who these so-called "Beetles" are... but they obviously plagiarized the work of a highly-respected musical act.

:band:

( Pictured above: Ringo, George, John, Paul)

You are right

A miss spelling on my behalf.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Killing babies?

See how that happens?

 

[ellenjanuary]

A vast complex of ideas, policies, and actions is comprehended under the phrase 'Manifest Destiny'. They are not, as we should expect, all compatible, nor do they come from any one source.

Sure they do. "Manifest Destiny" is the meaningless opposite of the equally meaningless "Free Will."

 

[Orias]

Killing babies?

Restating the questionaly halfly is not answering the question.

 

[Autodidact]

Since all religions are cultural constructs and, ultimately, "avatars" of truth, most people deal with one construct that works best for them. While I certainly don't dismiss another's religious beliefs, realizing that they are just a valid as my own, I usually don't "muddy the waters" in the manner you suggest. I do find some shamanistic and Native American expressions helpful to me, and have immersed myself deeply in the Celtic expression. And I realize that we're all painting the same picture with different colors.

Yes. The mythos of all religions is equally important and valuable. But in order to honor them all, I try not to "mix and match," for doing so would diminish the particularity of each.

And I'll just take a wild guess that possibly it's the one you were born into?

 

[sojourner]

And I'll just take a wild guess that possibly it's the one you were born into?

That would certainly be consistent with probability, wouldn't it? But I do know many people who embrace expressions they were not born into.

 

[Father Heathen]

If everyone in my society disagrees with a particular behavior of yours, is it not our prerogative to enforce our social standards?

No, reason and compassion supersede "cultural norms", and consensus doesn't make it right to victimize the innocent.

 

[waitasec]

That would certainly be consistent with probability, wouldn't it? But I do know many people who embrace expressions they were not born into.

i wonder what the stats are?
is there a way to find out if this is generally true or is it more odd than usual...

 

[Autodidact]

That would certainly be consistent with probability, wouldn't it? But I do know many people who embrace expressions they were not born into.

\

Am I right?

 

[horizon_mj1]

No, reason and compassion supersede "cultural norms", and consensus doesn't make it right to victimize the innocent.

I agree the enforcement of social standards is where things went wrong.