So was God wrong?

[sojourner]

so again i ask, would you agree this way of thinking perpetuated injustices throughout history, given the fact people throughout history took this bible as the word of god?

Of course it did, but that's no reflection on God -- only on humanity. I'm not sure that people "throughout history" have taken the Bible as "God's word" as you understand the term.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Of course it did, but that's no reflection on God -- only on humanity. I'm not sure that people "throughout history" have taken the Bible as "God's word" as you understand the term.

Exactly. I always thought it was the "ten commandments" that Christians believed was the only thing written by the hand of God. Where they ever found? I would guess by now maybe whoever found them would have told someone.

 

[Autodidact]

It's not an inaccurate record. It accurately reflects how various groups have felt about God and their place in the world.

O.K., so not about our relationship with God, but how some groups felt about God. O.K., I'll buy that. Can't see much value in it.

btw, any reason why the record of that particular group's feelings about God are more interesting or important or valuable than any other group's?

 

[waitasec]

Of course it did, but that's no reflection on God -- only on humanity.

so where do you get your ideas of god from?

I'm not sure that people "throughout history" have taken the Bible as "God's word" as you understand the term.

certainly not all...but what about the atrocities that were committed throughout history that used the bible, gods word, as justification

 

[horizon_mj1]

...but what about the atrocities that were committed throughout history that used the bible, gods word, as justification

The blood of innocents should not be upon the ones who claim to profess truth from any Divine being IMO. But guess what It IS. Yet this fact is continually ignored by the pride and belief of absolute salvation from one in whom was offended.

 

[waitasec]

The blood of innocents should not be upon the ones who claim to profess truth from any Divine being IMO.

anyone who professes the truth is lying...
but that's just me...

 

[sojourner]

O.K., so not about our relationship with God, but how some groups felt about God. O.K., I'll buy that. Can't see much value in it.

btw, any reason why the record of that particular group's feelings about God are more interesting or important or valuable than any other group's?

Lol. I don't doubt that you do, given your professed disbelief. But yes. You're correct.

Because it was that group that told the stories and eventually evolved into the Jews. Other groups at the time either died out, or morphed into something else. The OT stories reflect, not only the Hebraic lore, but imported lore from the Assyrians, Babylonians, etc. In fact, the El of the OT is not the same God as YHWH. These legends/myths/etc. were told for literally centuries before being written down. They were never taken literally by the Jews. I don't see any reason to change that POV...

 

[sojourner]

so where do you get your ideas of god from?

Mostly Tradition other than the Bible -- Xian ed. classes, parents, sermons, other books. For me the Bible is not the absolute last word. I ascribe to the Anglican POV of being grounded in scripture, tradition and reason.

certainly not all...but what about the atrocities that were committed throughout history that used the bible, gods word, as justification

Not a very long time, though in the grand scheme of things. And we can all see how poorly they turned out! Xy has come a long way since colonialization.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Mostly Tradition other than the Bible -- Xian ed. classes, parents, sermons, other books. For me the Bible is not the absolute last word. I ascribe to the Anglican POV of being grounded in scripture, tradition and reason.

Not a very long time, though in the grand scheme of things. And we can all see how poorly they turned out! Xy has come a long way since colonialization.

I beg to differ! Native societies throughout the Americas have been systematically destroyed starting in the 1400s, and continuing through to the present day! All based on the Christian concept of "manifest destiny"!

 

[Keezov]

anyone who professes the truth is lying...

I wouldn't saying harsh things like that, but there's somewhat truth, it depends on what his goal is, if he knows that he tells lies (and his words definetly sound like fairytales) and he still on them, so, he firstly lies himself and there nothing worse than that, and maybe his purpose is to fill up his religious community (maybe others) and to get power (like many archibishops in 10-16 centuries did).
BUT, once i talked to one rabbi about the creation of the world, and the way he expressed things was so good and faithfully with plenty of compelling arguments that truly set me thinking.
So each person i talk to, i follow the term "respect but suspect", because he may be the one with the truth.

 

[waitasec]

Mostly Tradition other than the Bible

and where do these traditions come from?

 

[sojourner]

and where do these traditions come from?

Any number of places. Mostly passed down, either in oral or written form from the church Fathers, theologians, scholars, spiritual directors, etc.

 

[sojourner]

I beg to differ! Native societies throughout the Americas have been systematically destroyed starting in the 1400s, and continuing through to the present day! All based on the Christian concept of "manifest destiny"!

"Manifest Destiny" is not a Christian concept.

 

[Jacksnyte]

"Manifest Destiny" is not a Christian concept.

Yes it is. Look a little deeper into the subject and you will see! It is a Eurocentric Christian idea.

 

[sojourner]

Yes it is. Look a little deeper into the subject and you will see! It is a Eurocentric Christian idea.

Neither the religious texts, nor the Church Fathers, nor other Tradition discusses Manifest Destiny. If Manifest Destiny plagiarizes Biblical tenet, that's not Christianity's fault -- any more than Hitler's pure race policy is Xy's fault.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Neither the religious texts, nor the Church Fathers, nor other Tradition discusses Manifest Destiny. If Manifest Destiny plagiarizes Biblical tenet, that's not Christianity's fault -- any more than Hitler's pure race policy is Xy's fault.

European Christians claimed that it was God's will that they conquer these lands and subjugate these people in the name of Christendom. Regardless of whether it is scripturally based, it was definitely a christian-based idea.

 

[Autodidact]

Lol. I don't doubt that you do, given your professed disbelief. But yes. You're correct.

Because it was that group that told the stories and eventually evolved into the Jews. Other groups at the time either died out, or morphed into something else. The OT stories reflect, not only the Hebraic lore, but imported lore from the Assyrians, Babylonians, etc. In fact, the El of the OT is not the same God as YHWH. These legends/myths/etc. were told for literally centuries before being written down. They were never taken literally by the Jews. I don't see any reason to change that POV...

Yes, but why are Jews more important than Choctaw, Jains, Japanese or Celts?

 

[Autodidact]

Mostly Tradition other than the Bible -- Xian ed. classes, parents, sermons, other books. For me the Bible is not the absolute last word. I ascribe to the Anglican POV of being grounded in scripture, tradition and reason.

Not a very long time, though in the grand scheme of things. And we can all see how poorly they turned out! Xy has come a long way since colonialization.

No, only for the history of Christianity right up until secular governments reined it in.

 

[Autodidact]

Neither the religious texts, nor the Church Fathers, nor other Tradition discusses Manifest Destiny. If Manifest Destiny plagiarizes Biblical tenet, that's not Christianity's fault -- any more than Hitler's pure race policy is Xy's fault.

In reality, the destruction of the peoples of the Americas was accomplished by Christian priests who travelled with the conquistadors and played an important role in their destruction.

 

[Orias]

In reality, the destruction of the peoples of the Americas was accomplished by Christian priests who travelled with the conquistadors and played an important role in their destruction.

Genocide would be more appropriate.

Premonacta was a tactic that was put in play countless times, along with the "Americanization" of the Natives who were sent to specific schools just learn how to be "American", their original language and culture was forbidden and was punishable with the crimes of treason.

Carlisle was One of these schools, in which Jim Thorpe attended becoming One of the most famous Natives to ever live.