So what’s so great about a Christian heaven?

[Muffled]

Why would something like orgies be a sin in Heaven? I presume orgies are sinful on Earth because they conflict with the ordained way of raising children, and because they can lead to unforeseen harmful consequences. But no children are raised in Heaven. And in Heaven, unlike on Earth, nothing bad could possibly happen, since Heaven is perfect, right? So ... ?

What about something milder than an orgy, say, a white T-shirt KY jelly wrestling match? Surely those are happening constantly in heaven ....

Beacause a sinful condition is carried in the spirit. Jesus put it this way "If you become angry at someone you have committed murder in your heart." The spiritual condition of the person is that of a murderer. In essence, you are what you think. So the sin does not proceed from having life but from thoughts and desires that are contrary to God's will. Those thoughts and desires are not allowed in Heaven.

I doubt a prurient interest in women is allowed in Heaven. A pure interest in the person's character would be fine.

Take for instance my wife who I met in Heaven. She could display an image of herself in any way she pleased (she does that now in a role playing game on the computer). However once given a life she could come in almost any form and be quite different from the image in Heaven. My attraction was not to the image but to the person.

 

[Muffled]

What’s so great about a Christian heaven? The absence of all
the horrors of this world that are often presented as proof that
there's no God, I would presume.

-

You are almost correct. It is a rest from the evils of this world but also it can be a rest from physical life. Have you ever been in the body for millenia? you just might get tired of it.

That would be like saying that electrons are proof that there are no protons. It is an irrational deduction.

 

[Muffled]

heaven is the carrot one strives for...once one touches it, it's hell.

I suspect that your experience is not that of Heaven. Or are you simply speaking out of your imagination?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Those thoughts and desires are not allowed in Heaven.

Why not? If something causes no harm, and it makes someone happy, then it seems arbitrary and irrational to forbid it.

 

[waitasec]

I suspect that your experience is not that of Heaven. Or are you simply speaking out of your imagination?

who are you to tell me what heaven and hell mean to me?

 

[Thief]

heaven is the carrot one strives for...once one touches it, it's hell.

And who are you to tell me what heaven or hell might be?

 

[waitasec]

And who are you to tell me what heaven or hell might be?

but i didn't say that was to be taken as how you see it.


that is how i see it....duh

muffled applies his opinion to everyone...
i'm only talking from my POV

but i can see you are having difficulty understanding that concept.

i suspect you are speaking out of ignorance...

 

[Thief]

but i didn't say that was to be taken as how you see it.


that is how i see it....duh

muffled applies his opinion to everyone...
i'm only talking from my POV

but i can see you are having difficulty understanding that concept.

i suspect you are speaking out of ignorance...

Yeah right.

Actually I think I read your comment true to mark.

 

[waitasec]

Yeah right.

Actually I think I read your comment true to mark.

which one?

 

[savagewind]

So far I shall say I rate the thread "very good". I'm on page three. Congratulations s2a for the brilliant Bible research you did. Bravo. I could't do that. I have a wee bit of adult attention deficit.

To be answering your question correctly for me might take months. Maybe Earth years.

I have settled on one aspect of Heaven that I discern. Heaven and Earth are not mutually exclusive.

Jacob's ladder
Abraham's guests
Mary's visitor
The road (I'm gonna look it up-later) the prophet said the unclean can not walk on

 

[Sunstone]

Good luck finding anything in all that fire.

Somehow I find Nietzsche and the people he finds interesting to be uninteresting. That would be like telling me to stick my hand in the fire because it is an interesting experience. No thanks. I'll pass on that.

What a boring response.

 

[Muffled]

Why not? If something causes no harm, and it makes someone happy, then it seems arbitrary and irrational to forbid it.

Sin is a contrary position to that of God. It desecrates God's perfection and therefore is hamful because things are no longer perfect.

How do you harm a diamond. You crush it into dust. If you offer the dust to your fiancee and say here is a perfect diamond, will she think so?

 

[Muffled]

who are you to tell me what heaven and hell mean to me?

I am one who knows you. You have never been there.

 

[Muffled]

So far I shall say I rate the thread "very good". I'm on page three. Congratulations s2a for the brilliant Bible research you did. Bravo. I could't do that. I have a wee bit of adult attention deficit.

To be answering your question correctly for me might take months. Maybe Earth years.

I have settled on one aspect of Heaven that I discern. Heaven and Earth are not mutually exclusive.

Jacob's ladder
Abraham's guests
Mary's visitor
The road (I'm gonna look it up-later) the prophet said the unclean can not walk on

I fail to see the reasoning behind this.

If you are referring to this verse in the first instance, the reference is to heaven not Heaven.

Ge 28:12 And he dreamed; and behold, a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and, behold, the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Also this is a dream which could be a reference to something real or it could be a fantasy.

 

[thau]

The Eagles music playing in heaven? I sure hope there are some walls of separation.

Ok, joking (or no joking) aside, your quote ----- “So what does the Bible say about heaven that makes it so cool (relatively and metaphorically speaking) and desirable?”

Not enough to satisfy you, surely. But it does say this which means your questions come as no surprise to me: “Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it entered the imaginations of man what God has prepared for those who love Him.” [1 Corninthians 2] But, you demand God meet you on your terms. Quite bold, IMO.

Allow me to offer up one plausible scenario. I ask you to describe to me what would make you very happy here on earth and not bored? Is that possible? How about something close like the following? You are born into a very happy, stable, well off home where you have loving parents and many siblings. You grow up in wide-eyed wonder experiencing all kinds of happy times with family and friends. You graduate from school and become successful and have a family of your own. You grow old gracefully taking in all of life’s joys and wonders and by the age of 65 are peacefully taken out of this world. During those entire 65 years you experience no angry times amongst your family and friend, there are no wars or tragedies in this world, there is no bitterness, there is no complaining, but there is endless discovery and beauty and joy, plus you get to hear the Eagles for the first time again.

For all intents and purposes, would you consider the above to be a heavenly existence with no real boredom? Now what happens next is you are reborn as an infant and go through a very similar existence of 65 years of peace and joy once again. You have no memory of having experienced anything like this before, none, it is all new. Given those circumstances one could repeat the 65 year life cycle an infinite number of times and never be bored as you so feel would be present. It is always new to the individual and very fulfilling.

Of course, I am not so naïve to think God cannot be far more creative and fascinating than my example, but my example satisfies a number of concerns.

 

[savagewind]

Heaven with a capital H may refer to God's THRONE

Heaven with a small h may refer to God's children.

No?

While alive on Earth a person as a human "son of Adham" can be led by God and God's children who are heavenly. Not mutually exclusive in my opinion.

Jehovah's Witnesses of which I was one teach RULERSHIP comes from Heaven. I do not know that. I am sure LEADERSHIP comes from Heaven AND even heaven. Confused? LOL

 

[URAVIP2ME]

According to the Apocalypse [5 vs 9,10] those going to heaven have two [2] jobs to do.

Those 'adopted' sons will serve as both kings and priests with Jesus during his 1000-year reign over earth. [serve as joint-heirs Romans 8 v 17]

As kings they will be responsible for governmental duties for earthly subjects of God's kingdom. [Douay Psalm 71 v 8]
As priests they will take care of the spiritual needs [spiritual food] of earthly subjects.

All who lived before Jesus lived [John 3 v 13] are not 'reborn', but as Jesus taught be 'resurrected'.
They will be resurrected back to life during Jesus millennial reign over earth. -Acts 24 v 15

The 'sheep' of Matthew [25 vs 31,32] are alive on earth at Jesus' coming 'time of separation' and can remain alive on earth right into the start of Jesus messianic reign over earth to be part of the meek that will inherit the earth forever. [Douay Psalm 36 vs 11,29]
Meanwhile, Jesus 'brothers' [adopted sons of God] reign as saints or holy ones with Jesus from heaven as co-rulers of God's kingdom. - Daniel 7 vs 13,14, 18

 

[waitasec]

I am one who knows you. You have never been there.

you know me? really?


and you've been there...

wait a sec...is that the spirit of gawd speaking through you?

 

[savagewind]

From heaven's perspective I suggest "happening" and "establishing" are not the same.

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach according to their doctrine, not according to the same words as mine, effect always follows cause.

For instance they teach that because John the Baptist died before Jesus did and Jesus made the way to heaven accessible then John can not be of the heavenly class. "Jesus" (Yehoshua meaning Yahweh is salvation sp?) established the way to heaven by his death, but before his death the established way was already effective. It is because time is not God. God rules time.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

All who died before Jesus died [John 3 v 13] did not go to heaven.
Even King David according to Acts [ 2 v 34] did not ascend to heaven.

Jesus will fulfill God's promise to Abraham that all families of EARTH would be blessed and
all nations of EARTH would be blessed. Blessed with healing or curing of the nations
[the nations of EARTH] - Genesis 12 v 3; 22 v 18; Rev. 22 v 2

So, besides a heavenly hope for Jesus 'brothers' [1st Cor. 15 v 50; Rev 20 v 6], there is the earthly hope for the majority of mankind to live forever on a paradisaic earth starting with Jesus' 1000-year reign over earth, or earthly subjects of God's kingdom.
-Psalm 72 v 8