So what’s so great about a Christian heaven?

[s2a]

So far I shall say I rate the thread "very good". I'm on page three. Congratulations s2a for the brilliant Bible research you did. Bravo. I could't do that. I have a wee bit of adult attention deficit.

To be answering your question correctly for me might take months. Maybe Earth years.

I have settled on one aspect of Heaven that I discern. Heaven and Earth are not mutually exclusive.

Jacob's ladder
Abraham's guests
Mary's visitor
The road (I'm gonna look it up-later) the prophet said the unclean can not walk on

OK. It's not a quiz. No time limit.

 

[savagewind]

"Jesus" Yehoshua is in my opinion the Lord of "a new creation". So before Him, there indeed was no ascension. But when He accomplished God's Will (John 19:30) THEN the way was made to heaven.

The best way I understand it is a drop of water, the ripples spread in all directions. But David even then did not ascend as he was before Christ, not with Christ. But I believe Heaven descended to him, how else would he write about the Christ?

John 3:13 is what is recorded Christ said BEFORE he died. It was true then. He had not suffered his death yet. Luke 22:44 Mark 15:34

The thousand years I think are not Earth sequential years, but I don't know what it means. I have a clue, but it's probably wrong

 

[s2a]

The Eagles music playing in heaven? I sure hope there are some walls of separation.

Hey now, I like the Eagles…

Ok, joking (or no joking) aside, your quote ----- “So what does the Bible say about heaven that makes it so cool (relatively and metaphorically speaking) and desirable?”

Not enough to satisfy you, surely.

You kidding? It sounds awesome, if the thousands upon thousands of claims and phantasmagorical mythologies were possible or likely. I’ve even had one believer promise me (with a straight face) that there would be unlimited cognac and the very best seegars ever made purely to accompany my eternal bliss.

But it does say this which means your questions come as no surprise to me: “Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it entered the imaginations of man what God has prepared for those who love Him.” [1 Corninthians 2] But, you demand God meet you on your terms. Quite bold, IMO.

Well, two (maybe three) things…

As to 1st Cor. 2: not really the best rabbit out of the hat as reply, for it echoes many other quotes that either God is purposefully mysterious (or secretive), or that man is to dumb to comprehend anything with the slightest of detail attached. That, I would qualify as unsatisfying, yes.

Secondly, I’ll gladly apologize if you can cite anywhere in my OP any demand that God meet me on my terms, or upon anyone’s terms for that matter.
*taps and rolls fingers in wait*…

I cited most of the popular (biblical) Scriptural C&V that directly (or alludes directly enough) any sort of pointed description of a Christian Heaven. Sources included Strongs Concordance, Easton’s Bible Dictionary, numerous commentaries, etc. regarding C&V citations of Heaven. Now I realize that since you self-identify as a Catholic adherent, you may well consider Catholic catechisms and dogma as essentially equal to direct quotable scripture (or you may not), but then there are many Protestants that consider such Pope sanctioned “interpretations” to be written by the Church, and not from God (just saying).

Allow me to offer up one plausible scenario. I ask you to describe to me what would make you very happy here on earth and not bored? Is that possible?

That would take a while, for many things please me immensely, and as yet to tire of enjoying one whit. Perhaps this would be another thread to begin instead?

How about something close like the following? You are born into a very happy, stable, well off home where you have loving parents and many siblings. You grow up in wide-eyed wonder experiencing all kinds of happy times with family and friends. You graduate from school and become successful and have a family of your own. You grow old gracefully taking in all of life’s joys and wonders and by the age of 65 are peacefully taken out of this world. During those entire 65 years you experience no angry times amongst your family and friend, there are no wars or tragedies in this world, there is no bitterness, there is no complaining, but there is endless discovery and beauty and joy, plus you get to hear the Eagles for the first time again.

I seem to recall you qualifying your scenario as being “plausible” (but you have inspired me to pop in my Eagles debut album now; love me some “Peaceful Easy Feelin’”).

For all intents and purposes, would you consider the above to be a heavenly existence with no real boredom? Now what happens next is you are reborn as an infant and go through a very similar existence of 65 years of peace and joy once again. You have no memory of having experienced anything like this before, none, it is all new. Given those circumstances one could repeat the 65 year life cycle an infinite number of times and never be bored as you so feel would be present. It is always new to the individual and very fulfilling.

Well, that’s certainly a most pleasant fantasy, I would concur (sounds a bit more like Hindu, Buddhist, or Taoist reincarnation spin, but ok...). Is it your claim that the Christian Heaven is that specific kind of fantasy? If so, could you/would you please cite any Biblical C&V (any translation mind you) that bolsters and describes that claim as you have suggested? I would be grateful (though not eternally ya know) if you would. If not, I invite you to offer a better and more plausible conundrum to contemplate.

Of course, I am not so naïve to think God cannot be far more creative and fascinating than my example, but my example satisfies a number of concerns.

Well of course, and as you’ll note in the OP, your caveat was not an expectation of mine to be met that you be more “creative” that your god… only that you might bolster a solid and Scripturally based argument for a Christian Heaven as one might be able to glean alone, or by reason, shall we say.

My turn..

Let’s say you are a stowaway upon a ship that sinks in the middle of the South Pacific, and you are the lone but fortunate survivor that washes ashore that cliched desert island. Your only companion and source of entertaining reading is a waterlogged copy of The Bible (let’s just say the NIV, being most popular today). Let’s say you were raised in an unreligious home…aware of some religious claims…but favoring nor disfavoring any particular claims either theologically or philosophically (Now c’mon, that’s certainly plausible, as I am one example myself). Just from reading that one Bible, front to back, again and again (with no one else present to lend any bias, or interpretation, or explanation, or commentary)… what might you then conclude to “know” with certainty and absolute conviction of “truth” that the Christian “Heaven” is is a destination of desirable outcome within a certain mortal existence (Eagles on the heavenly jukebox excepted)?

Christians the world over, from untold numbers of sects and sub-sects (we have snake-handlers nearby these parts, no kidding) all seem to have unique and/or similar claims (depends upon the claim) of otherwise implicit and impossibly vague and unsubstantiated details, and quite frankly some stuff that is obviously pure invention and/or wish-making. For adherent believers already “gifted” with religious faith, such claims ask little of sourced validation or substantiation, I know.

But if you’re on that remote desert island all alone…with naught but Bible in hand, and even less measure of requisite believing faith… where in that book shall I look to answer the simple question…

…”What’s so great about a Christian Heaven”?

[PS. Thank you for expending effort in reply to this OP]

 

[s2a]

"Jesus" Yehoshua is in my opinion the Lord of "a new creation". So before Him, there indeed was no ascension. But when He accomplished God's Will (John 19:30) THEN the way was made to heaven.

OK. I've always wondered how far back the "ascension clause" gets "grandfathered" in for those that came before... like maybe Homo erectus, Neanderthals, Cro-magnon man, Australopithecus even?

Oh wait... my bad. If Adam and Eve came along afterwards, I guess all those sentient, intelligent, tool-building, communal, ritualistic, and unappealing hirsute hominids won't be crowding the streets and byways of Heaven after all, will they?

The best way I understand it is a drop of water, the ripples spread in all directions. But David even then did not ascend as he was before Christ, not with Christ. But I believe Heaven descended to him, how else would he write about the Christ?

I do not know, as I can not claim any particular informed familiarity with your own (somewhat atypical) perspective.

John 3:13 is what is recorded Christ said BEFORE he died. It was true then. He had not suffered his death yet. Luke 22:44 Mark 15:34

Um…ok… ?

The thousand years I think are not Earth sequential years, but I don't know what it means. I have a clue, but it's probably wrong

No offense, but was your post intended as reply for another thread perhaps?

 

[Super Universe]

All who died before Jesus died [John 3 v 13] did not go to heaven.
Even King David according to Acts [ 2 v 34] did not ascend to heaven.

Jesus will fulfill God's promise to Abraham that all families of EARTH would be blessed and
all nations of EARTH would be blessed. Blessed with healing or curing of the nations
[the nations of EARTH] - Genesis 12 v 3; 22 v 18; Rev. 22 v 2

So, besides a heavenly hope for Jesus 'brothers' [1st Cor. 15 v 50; Rev 20 v 6], there is the earthly hope for the majority of mankind to live forever on a paradisaic earth starting with Jesus' 1000-year reign over earth, or earthly subjects of God's kingdom.
-Psalm 72 v 8

All those who died before Jesus did not go to heaven because the access was not open yet. Only after Jesus finished His earthly bestowal and assumed His place as God's representative over the universe was the doorway opened. This is why Jesus said "Only through Me can you get to heaven".

The earth will become a paradise when we make it so. The earth is not meant to be a separate heaven, heaven is eternal, the earth is temporary and will eventually be consumed by the sun.

 

[Super Universe]

As to the original post "What's so great about heaven", well, you get your own universe.

 

[s2a]

All those who died before Jesus did not go to heaven because the access was not open yet. Only after Jesus finished His earthly bestowal and assumed His place as God's representative over the universe was the doorway opened. This is why Jesus said "Only through Me can you get to heaven".

The earth will become a paradise when we make it so. The earth is not meant to be a separate heaven, heaven is eternal, the earth is temporary and will eventually be consumed by the sun.

Psst. If we buy your published screed(s), we'll "know" that for sure then, won't we?

Not to worry, I promise not to share... maybe.

 

[s2a]

As to the original post "What's so great about heaven", well, you get your own universe.

Brilliant.

Thank you "Defender of God".

BTW...naught fer nuthing, but the thread and OP is entitled with interest upon "What's so great about a Christian Heaven?"

Perhaps it is time I cull a few of your past quotable posts (going back a few years, yes, but I have a magical computer, and all that stuff as a matter of digital record and all), wherein you twist yourself in a pretzel claiming not to be a Christian, or even a person of faith-based beliefs (no Photoshop required).

In my universe, time travel in this forum is quite possible

Maybe even in a Super Universe such as yours...

 

[savagewind]

No offense, but was your post intended as reply for another thread perhaps?

Doubters are funnier for sure than most believers. Thanks for the smiles.

The answer to your question is no, I was replying to a post of a poster on THIS thread. I don't know how to stop doing that.

 

[kjw47]

All those who died before Jesus did not go to heaven because the access was not open yet. Only after Jesus finished His earthly bestowal and assumed His place as God's representative over the universe was the doorway opened. This is why Jesus said "Only through Me can you get to heaven".

The earth will become a paradise when we make it so. The earth is not meant to be a separate heaven, heaven is eternal, the earth is temporary and will eventually be consumed by the sun.

The earth is not temporary according to Gods word--- the psalmist David wrote--The righteous will possess the earth and reside forever upon it.
Also it says-- The earth will never be made to totter.

 

[waitasec]

The earth is not temporary according to Gods word--- the psalmist David wrote--The righteous will possess the earth and reside forever upon it.
Also it says-- The earth will never be made to totter.

well ah...the psalmist was wrong...very very wrong.

 

[savagewind]

Love can prevent the Earth from tottering. It is my opinion that the goal of a Christian is not so much to "make" more disciples of Christ but it is to build up confidence in time indefinite with justice and love.

"Make" seems to me to be added to the command at Matthew 28:19.

The great thing about Heaven is it is where HOPE resides. Faith, hope, love, but the greatest is love. 1Corinthians 13:13

 

[Super Universe]

Brilliant.

Thank you "Defender of God".

BTW...naught fer nuthing, but the thread and OP is entitled with interest upon "What's so great about a Christian Heaven?"

Perhaps it is time I cull a few of your past quotable posts (going back a few years, yes, but I have a magical computer, and all that stuff as a matter of digital record and all), wherein you twist yourself in a pretzel claiming not to be a Christian, or even a person of faith-based beliefs (no Photoshop required).

In my universe, time travel in this forum is quite possible

Maybe even in a Super Universe such as yours...

I don't fit in the small box you're trying to put me in. I don't believe I ever claimed to not be a Christian, I just might not be the type of Christian most people think of. For me, it just means that I try my best to follow the teachings of Christ.

As for me being a person of faith based belief, I don't fit that category either. I can't say that I have faith in God, I know He exists.

Hopefully all of that is now out of the way, is there anything you can contribute to the original topic?

 

[kjw47]

well ah...the psalmist was wrong...very very wrong.

Lets see--Gods annointed king David wrote the psalms but he was wrong huh?

 

[s2a]

I don't fit in the small box you're trying to put me in. I don't believe I ever claimed to not be a Christian, I just might not be the type of Christian most people think of. For me, it just means that I try my best to follow the teachings of Christ.

*sigh*

Ok, when I have the time and inclination to waste a few precious moments in time, I’ll be pleased enough to provide some of your previous postings here in REF (dating back to 2005). You and Mitt Romney have much in common. Selective memory loss and earnest denial of historic record. I owe my time to better and more responsive replies than your own at the moment…but stay tuned… a trip down memory lane might be refreshing to you and others as well

Hopefully all of that is now out of the way, is there anything you can contribute to the original topic?

You are welcome to hope away whatever you please, but it suits me instead to employ a bit of recall upon your notably fluid praxis.

Oh, and have a one more eensy teensy look back.
I authored the OP. Little ole me.
Its stands today as unchanged as it did then.
No waffles, no edits, no addendums.

Your “contributions” far beyond the scope of that OP are noted.
Thank you.

 

[waitasec]

Lets see--Gods annointed king David wrote the psalms but he was wrong huh?

yes...

 

[savagewind]

Waitasec, according to you, is David wrong about the Earth being bequeathed to the meek? How do you know it won't be so? What is your evidence please?

 

[Thief]

Waitasec, according to you, is David wrong about the Earth being bequeathed to the meek? How do you know it won't be so? What is your evidence please?

Evidence for a faith based discussion?
Non-believers just love that.

The meek shall indeed inherit the earth.

Who wants to go to heaven?...what happens when you do?
From a thread I started...I quote myself.....

For example....I've heard discussion that no matter what....we go to heaven.

THAT, I find hard to believe.

Picture yourself as Hitler....yes you can.
You make it through the gate and are escorted all around heaven.

Later that evening, you are invited to supper...with 'thirteen' others.
As you dip your bread in the bowl, a Carpenter is doing likewise.
You turn to use another bowl...and Judas is doing so as well.

(note the.... 'look in the eye'.... part)

Sounds like fun!....don't you think so!
(end quote)

 

[savagewind]

I don't think I want to talk anymore till I get more frubals. Frubals?

I know ten are free so I only have four. Do they not mean "thanks for commenting'?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think I want to talk anymore till I get more frubals. Frubals?

I know ten are free so I only have four. Do they not mean "thanks for commenting'?

Pretty much. Every time you're fruballed, the person has the opportunity to leave you a more specific comment. You can see them on your User CP.