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So what’s so great about a Christian heaven?

idea

Question Everything
No, God is not all powerful because God can not lie...

God is all-powerful, if it is possible, and not a logical contradiction, then God can do it. Impossible does exist though, to make a square circle etc. etc.

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As for heaven -

We believe that there are differing degrees of glory (1 Cor 15:40) and that in the highest degree of glory, you get to create and raise up your own family.

4 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? ~ John 10:34

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The unpardonable sin is reserved for those who have a witness from the Holy Ghost, who have seen angels, have seen Jesus himself, know everything there is to know without a shadow of a doubt - and then turn their back on what is good. I don't think Hitler had that kind of knowledge, few people do, so it is impossible for most to commit the unpardonable sin.

"(Guide to the Scriptures | U Unpardonable Sin.:Entry)
Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men, Matt. 12:31–32 (Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10). It is impossible for those who were made partakers of the Holy Ghost to renew them again unto repentance, Heb. 6:4–6. If we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb. 10:26. If ye deny the Holy Ghost and know that ye deny it, this is a sin which is unpardonable, Alma 39:5–6 (Jacob 7:19). They have no forgiveness, having denied the Only Begotten Son, having crucified him unto themselves, D&C 76:30–35. The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven, which is shedding innocent blood after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, D&C 132:26–27."
 
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s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Yes, perhaps, but only if you are not of the ilk already being indescribably impressed by what we can already observe for ourselves that God has created, i.e. the entire universe, the human mind and senses, etc. I marvel at such a God and if He says there is so much more to be revealed I have no doubts.

Your piety and belief is part of the record. I can just as easily observe and wonder upon the cosmos, just as you. I’ve yet to see any billboard out there in the vastness that says “You’re Welcome. Signed--God”

I deducted as much, whether right or wrong on my part.
Your powers of deduction need much more practice and challenge. This is one error you may learn from :)

That’s a whole other realm of discussion. I have many objections to Protestant theology where we both cannot be right. Suffice it to say for the moment that in Matthew 16 Jesus established His Church here on earth to be the final authority where what the Church deems to be bound on earth shall be bound in heaven, and so on. Whether you or the Protestants deny who that Church now is is the crux of contention I suppose.
Not my conundrum to resolve, as it is my contention that no sect of Christianity is an authority of whatever their Heaven is, or might be.

Too each his own. The Eagles music just never excited me. I was always more intrigued in their fascination with demonic ancestors than I was with their music. Not that I am not without my demons. I happen to have grown up with the Doors and the Blue Oyster Cult as my “true loves.”
I’ve scribbled that tidbit into my notepad for reference...

I'll take it on faith that you do not fear the Reaper.

Not for one second to I claim that kind of fantasy I described will resemble “the Christian heaven.” I was merely suggesting to those who think heaven would get boring a scenario where it would not be. I am certain heaven is infinitely more amazing and filled with joy.
Nor have you even begun to address the OP in any significant way, beyond your insistent reiterations of faith.

Heaven has been visited by a number of saints and other privileged souls where we do not doubt its existence. More than anything they all seem to reveal an indescribable peace that they never experienced on earth, one where they feel they belong and never want to leave.
Is that revelation sourced from Biblical Scripture, or Catholic catechism?

Maybe not a lot for most would be my guess. You might be totally forgiven for your dismissal of the words? But that is why Jesus established His Church to be the guiding authority of not only interpretating Scripture, but witnessing to the truth. Someone alone on an island with or without the Bible is a whole different class of people God will judge.
You may note in the OP, that I did not invite personal testimonies of belief, but sourced scriptural support for any claims that are said to be veritable about a “Christian Heaven”. I have already cited numerous C&V quotes from the Bible that offer interesting vagaries and indistinct descriptors. Do you have anything more detailed with support to offer, or no?

There will always be division amonst the bretheren, that has been manifest. I still maintain certain truths are too clear to be denied and if you live upon those dogmas alone you cannot stray too far. No one should feel entitled to have answers to all their questions first answered before they feel obligated to give God any credit or gratitude.
*rolls eyes*

*points to self*
Atheist, remember?

Christian heaven speaks of living for all eternity, about knowing those dear to you once again, about no more pain or sorrow. If God is real, then so is his love for his creation. It makes no sense He would abandon us to oblivion after a very brief flirtation with existence.
Well if you believe that, then perhaps (in reference and prospective answer to the OP as written) you might offer up a tad more for unbelievers to get a grasp of than just trillions upon trillions of years basking in eternal light upon the lap of Abraham? No one’s asking for a personal guided tour from the Almighty himself. Just maybe some photos of the accommodations? Recreational facilities? Upcoming concerts? Midnight bowling opportunities?

Hard for me to find the time to really engage anyone on these boards, but I appreciate your effort, and understand I often may not be able to reciprocate. Ps – ditch the Mencken quote; he assumes these things are unknowable, that is his first mistake.
Thanks, but he and I are skeptical “souls” bound at the hip :)

Hums “Peaceful Easy Feelin’”...
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Ugh. this thread has been highjacked by silly discussions not topical to the OP in any way whatsoever.

It happens, I know...

I only request that the parties involved (you know who you are) please carry on in a more appropriate and topically relevant thread instead.

thank you :)
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
I never found anything appealing about the Christian heaven. There was a thread a while back entitled something like:

Will you be happy in heaven while your loved ones burn in hell?

Some of the responses were most disturbing. This retarded level of bliss that is implied, I have no desire for. I do not want a frontal lobotomy in exchange for bliss. Freedom is love, and Heaven sounds like a sort of prison dressed in flowers and sweets.
 

averageJOE

zombie
I never found anything appealing about the Christian heaven. There was a thread a while back entitled something like:

Will you be happy in heaven while your loved ones burn in hell?

Some of the responses were most disturbing. This retarded level of bliss that is implied, I have no desire for. I do not want a frontal lobotomy in exchange for bliss. Freedom is love, and Heaven sounds like a sort of prison dressed in flowers and sweets.

Not to mention boring.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Ugh. this thread has been highjacked by silly discussions not topical to the OP in any way whatsoever.

It happens, I know...

I only request that the parties involved (you know who you are) please carry on in a more appropriate and topically relevant thread instead.

thank you :)


Guilty as charged. Please accept my apology.

Christian Heaven? What is so great about it? Is it not where the power comes from to accomplish something good? Justice, freedom, goodness, happy, peace, how are these accomplished? Atheists can accomplish these things, but only Heaven knows how to secure them forever. If there was no antichrists, I suspect Heaven would be very near to accomplishing Peace. To be a part of the solution (heavenly) instead of being a part of the problem is mighty satisfactory I think. The great thing about heaven is owning the satisfaction that my soul has accomplished something good. To me heaven is real, so the accomplishment I can/will/do experience is also witnessed by others who share in real accomplishment for peace and life. But not in THIS life.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Please, I'd like to show You something.

If in case people read my posts, which I doubt, I want to explain why a person needs Heaven's direction to meet accomplishment. Reading my last sentence "but not in this life" I have to realize it can mean many different things to every reader.

I didn't write it to mean many things.

It might read "good can't be accomplished in this life". That is what I think the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Present life, not Earth vs spirit life.

It might read "the writer of the posts believes the feeling of accomplishment cannot be realized in this life". That's just sad. And not what I wrote

What it means is real accomplishment should not be dependent on how other people in this life view me. I have a joke, but I sense I probably shouldn't say it.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
An accomplishment is personal. It has no effect on the future. A real accomplishment is something that benefits others, not just oneself, for life and peace.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
An accomplishment is personal. It has no effect on the future. A real accomplishment is something that benefits others, not just oneself, for life and peace.

what?
can you tell me of an accomplishment that has no effect on the future?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
what?
can you tell me of an accomplishment that has no effect on the future?

I didn't say that. I said it is real if it effects the FUTURE FOR LIFE AND PEACE. I accomplish supper sometimes. It does nothing for you and except for adding calories which add fat sometimes which is NOT for life OR peace, it adds nothing to tomorrow...... Are you in a fighting mood, or am I? LOL
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I didn't say that. I said it is real if it effects the FUTURE FOR LIFE AND PEACE.

and???

are you suggesting ALL accomplishments made by mankind haven't affected the future for life and peace? if you are, that is just pure nonsense.


I accomplish supper sometimes. It does nothing for you and except for adding calories which add fat sometimes which is NOT for life OR peace, it adds nothing to tomorrow...... Are you in a fighting mood, or am I? LOL
put up you dukes.... ;)

actually in chaos theory it does accomplish something...
a cause and an affect chain reaction...one may feel bad about their self image and my say something that will affect someone else to go to the gym and eat healthier
anything and everything is possible

now when it comes to a real accomplishment lets stop being coy here
you are talking about faith as a real accomplishment...
i agree it is an accomplishment of sorts, but to label it as a REAL one is a little pretentious...imo.
 

averageJOE

zombie
Guilty as charged. Please accept my apology.

Christian Heaven? What is so great about it? Is it not where the power comes from to accomplish something good? Justice, freedom, goodness, happy, peace, how are these accomplished? Atheists can accomplish these things, but only Heaven knows how to secure them forever. If there was no antichrists, I suspect Heaven would be very near to accomplishing Peace. To be a part of the solution (heavenly) instead of being a part of the problem is mighty satisfactory I think. The great thing about heaven is owning the satisfaction that my soul has accomplished something good. To me heaven is real, so the accomplishment I can/will/do experience is also witnessed by others who share in real accomplishment for peace and life. But not in THIS life.
But will you have 100% "satisfaction"? Will you truley be "satisfied" in heaven if some of your loved ones are not there also?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
and???? your point is...????

you seem to be suggesting the human plight is void of accomplishments...

I am a Christian. I am not the kind that believes CHRIST will accomplish everything. How did you read that into what I wrote, I wonder? Christ's accomplishment made the way FOR peace and life and many people since have accomplished a lot in that regard. But it's not finished.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But will you have 100% "satisfaction"? Will you truley be "satisfied" in heaven if some of your loved ones are not there also?


No. I will not have accomplished my work 100% so I will not be satisfied 100%. But Heaven is not like Earth. It is different, isn't it? I can not imagine my loved ones being absent. They will always be with me not matter where I go. Love is forever.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Waitasec! I'm confused. You are confusing me. Either all things accomplished are for mankind's good or none are? That is better than drugs. LOL OK thanks!
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I am a Christian. I am not the kind that believes CHRIST will accomplish everything. How did you read that into what I wrote, I wonder? Christ's accomplishment made the way FOR peace and life and many people since have accomplished a lot in that regard. But it's not finished.

because you said a REAL accomplishment affects the FUTURE FOR LIFE AND PEACE...

but lets not forget what brought us to that point... the idea of heaven...

what has this idea accomplished? the idea of hell, the justification of bad behavior...and a perpetuating the idea that one will finally get the carrot. what then?
and the idea of heaven hasn't really covered all the basics like
"thank you lord for saving my soul, but where is my youngest son bubba?"
 

averageJOE

zombie
No. I will not have accomplished my work 100% so I will not be satisfied 100%. But Heaven is not like Earth. It is different, isn't it? I can not imagine my loved ones being absent. They will always be with me not matter where I go. Love is forever.
Does this mean that everyone makes it to heaven no matter what?
 
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