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So, What Happened, Jesus?

W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
.

Matthew 24

Verses 1- 3, Jesus talks about The destruction of the temple and its implications.

Verses 4-14, Jesus talks about The flow of history until his return.

Verses 15-35, Jesus talks about the sign of His coming and the end of the age.*


Starting at verse 29 we read

ERV
29 “Right after the trouble of those days, this will happen:

‘The sun will become dark,
and the moon will not give light.
The stars will fall from the sky,
and everything in the sky will be changed.’[c]

30 “Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory. 31 He will use a loud trumpet to send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.

32 “The fig tree teaches us a lesson: When its branches become green and soft, and new leaves begin to grow, then you know that summer is very near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things happening, you will know that the time[d] is very near, already present. 34 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 35 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.
​

In other Bibles verse 34 reads as:
GNT
"Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died."
KJV
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
NOG
“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place."
NIRV
"What I’m about to tell you is true. The people living now will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
MSG
. . .Don’t take this lightly. I’m not just saying this for some future generation, but for all of you. This age continues until all these things take place. Sky and earth will wear out; my words won’t wear out."
GNT
"Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died."

​
So what happened? Nothing happened, that's what happened.

The sun never became dark.
The moon still gives light.
The stars are still in the sky,
Everything in the sky has not changed.
And everyone did not see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.​

​
Question: How could Jesus (god) have been so terribly wrong?



*source

.
Click to expand...

The ERV, the 'Easy to read" version.... really?

Mathew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom and they did "see" it in witnessing his resurrection and ascension before they died

Some others lived long enough to seeing the temple destroyed in 70 AD such as the apostle John

Many prophesies have an immediate fulfillment and a later and the Olivet discourse screams an immediate and a later fulfillment... the walls of the temple wall first... someday the stars fall... but the real sign of the coming of the Son of man is the gospel is preached to all nations
 
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sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
The ERV, the 'Easy to read" version.... really?

Mathew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom and they did "see" it in witnessing his resurrection and ascension before they died

Some others lived long enough to seeing the temple destroyed in 70 AD such as the apostle John

Many prophesies have an immediate fulfillment and a later and the Olivet discourse screams an immediate and a later fulfillment... the walls of the temple wall first... someday the stars fall... but the real sign of the coming of the Son of man is the gospel is preached to all nations
Click to expand...

All nations in their world?
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
Where is this fact recorded and substantiated?

.
Click to expand...

There was no objection from the people living at the time who could have said 'never happened'

There was a debate as to why it happened, one claiming it was an eclipse, the other saying it was too long and during a full moon

see Africanus on Thallus
quote
On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the Passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Saviour falls on the day before the Passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let that opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth—manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending of rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period. But it was a darkness induced by God, because the Lord happened then to suffer.

Africanus, who cites Thallus on other matters as well, is exercised to expose as erroneous Thallus’ explaining the darkness as due to a solar eclipse. He points out that such an explanation is unreasonable because Passover always occurs at the time of the full moon, and the full moon cannot come between the earth and the sun. So the explanation, according to Africanus, must be that the darkness was miraculous.
unquote
written by William Lain Craig of reasonable faith
Thallus on the Darkness at Noon | Reasonable Faith
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
The ERV, the 'Easy to read" version.... really?

Mathew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom and they did "see" it in witnessing his resurrection and ascension before they died

Some others lived long enough to seeing the temple destroyed in 70 AD such as the apostle John

Many prophesies have an immediate fulfillment and a later and the Olivet discourse screams an immediate and a later fulfillment... the walls of the temple wall first... someday the stars fall... but the real sign of the coming of the Son of man is the gospel is preached to all nations
Click to expand...

Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant - aish.com
www.aish.com › Home › Spirituality › Philosophy
While the original Hebrew text clearly refers to the Jewish people as the “Suffering Servant,” over the centuries Isaiah 53 has become a cornerstone of the Christian claim that Jesus is the Messiah. Unfortunately, this claim is based on widespread mistranslations and distortion of context.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
Yes, it does help.

Jesus death and resurrection would be strong evidence
that what he said about his return is true

Acts 2:36
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Click to expand...

Isaiah is old testament.. Did you read the link I provided?
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
Isaiah is old testament.. Did you read the link I provided?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I love both the Old and New Testaments

so great!

I don't agree with the view in your link.
In that view Israel has no sin problem and no need of a savior
it just needs a sympathetic king who rewards them for their works

rather Jer 23 points to the work of a person and the righteousness of God

5“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 6In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’

There it is again... the righteous branch of David... like Isaiah where the nations put their hope in the son of Jesse
 
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blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
lukethethird said:
What difference does that make? That wasn't directed at me but just sayin.
Click to expand...
If you read the gospels, you might wonder why there are four different Jesuses (and Paul's makes five), for a start. Mark's, for example, is an ordinary Jewish citizen who needs to have his sins washed away by JtB, and only at that point becomes son of God, specifically in the same manner that David became son of God in Psalm 2:7 (Mark 1:10-11, Acts 13:33). No annunciation (Mark 3:21), no divine insemination, no star, no magi, no massacre of the innocents, no flight into Egypt, and so on. Yet Mark's is the only biography there is, copied with variations by the others, and it's written by preparing a list of what someone thought were messianic prophecies in the Tanakh and moving Jesus through the scenes. There may be little hints of a real person in there ─ 'physician, heal thyself', 'a prophet is not without honor except', and Jesus' all but unrelenting contempt every time he mentions his mother. Who knows?

Or outside the gospels, maybe, as Paul says, Jesus did have a blood brother called James; or maybe Paul was using that expression for a fellow-follower of Jesus. There's no clincher for an historical Jesus, and there's no clincher for no historical Jesus.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Enoch07 said:
Sure, but it's far removed from the OP. Go start another thread.
Click to expand...
Well, that subject's pretty exhausted. Three gospels have him making unqualified promises he'd be back in the lifetime of some of his hearers, and that didn't happen. Not in the story, not in history.

What else is there to say?
 
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