So, What Happened, Jesus?

[lukethethird]

Sure, but it's far removed from the OP. Go start another thread.

Jesus' existence is vital in determining the answer to the question posed by the OP because it makes a difference as to how we interpret the passages provided in the OP.

 

[Enoch07]

Well, that subject's pretty exhausted. Three gospels have him making unqualified promises he'd be back in the lifetime of some of his hearers, and that didn't happen. Not in the story, not in history.

What else is there to say?

Tired and boring argument which is why I didn't want to get into it. When ya come up with an original argument lemme know.

 

[Enoch07]

Jesus' existence is vital in determining the answer to the question posed by the OP because it makes a difference as to how we interpret the passages provided in the OP.

Boring

 

[blü 2]

Tired and boring argument which is why I didn't want to get into it. When ya come up with an original argument lemme know.

I don't need an argument. The text does all the work. The End.

 

[Enoch07]

I don't need an argument. The text does all the work. The End.

LoL that's why there is still debates over it til this day!

Like I say closed ridged minded individuals need not even bother trying.

 

[Deeje]

genea as was used in Koine Greek can also mean people with familial ties, past, present, and future ( Thayers Greek lexicon) so the genea He was speaking to have not passed away.

Exactly. The "genea" are those of the anointed or 'chosen ones' who will rule with Christ in his kingdom.

All kingdoms need subjects, but these rulers are also priests. (Revelation 20:6) Since priests need sinners for whom to perform their duties, then this "genea" began to be chosen in the first century and continued to be chosen right up to the end times.

The apostasy that was foretold meant that after the first century the chosen ones became few in a corrupted religious system that continues to this day.The 'genea' that Jesus chose as his apostles formed the foundations of the Kingdom.....that 'genea' were greatly hindered by the apostasy that took place after the death of the apostles, and it was not until the "time of the end" that God's worshippers were cleansed and again gathered in great numbers. He provided an abundance of knowledge that led his people out of Babylon the great. (Daniel 12:4; Daniel 12;9-10; Revelation 18:4)

We believe that knowledge has been shared around the world by a single global brotherhood known for their preaching work in every nation. A work that Christendom has failed to carry out, preferring to stay cloistered away in their buildings and safely preaching to the converted.

 

[Skwim]

This fact is recorded in Luke 23:44 and substantiated by millions of copies sold or given away.

So substantiation rests on popularity does it. Then Christianity must not be true because only 31.5% of the world's population is Christian.
source: Wikipedia

In any case, just because something appears in the Bible doesn't automatically make it a fact. Heck, simply consider all the contradictory "facts" in the book.
.

 

[MJFlores]

So substantiation rests on popularity does it. Then Christianity must not be true because only 31.5% of the world's population is Christian.
source: Wikipedia

In any case, just because something appears in the Bible doesn't automatically make it a fact. Heck, simply consider all the contradictory "facts" in the book.
.

Where can I check that out?

 

[blü 2]

LoL that's why there is still debates over it til this day!

Like I say closed ridged minded individuals need not even bother trying.

Oh, you mean inventing a meaning for the text that suits your argument regardless of the actual meaning? That's called apologetics, one of the most truth-free games you can play.

Though at the present time I'm not aware of any law against it, so if that's your thing, go for it.

 

[BilliardsBall]

.

Matthew 24

Verses 1- 3, Jesus talks about The destruction of the temple and its implications.

Verses 4-14, Jesus talks about The flow of history until his return.

Verses 15-35, Jesus talks about the sign of His coming and the end of the age.*


Starting at verse 29 we read

ERV
29 “Right after the trouble of those days, this will happen:

‘The sun will become dark,
and the moon will not give light.
The stars will fall from the sky,
and everything in the sky will be changed.’[c]

30 “Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory. 31 He will use a loud trumpet to send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.

32 “The fig tree teaches us a lesson: When its branches become green and soft, and new leaves begin to grow, then you know that summer is very near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things happening, you will know that the time[d] is very near, already present. 34 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 35 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.
​

In other Bibles verse 34 reads as:

GNT
"Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died."
KJV
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
NOG
“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place."
NIRV
"What I’m about to tell you is true. The people living now will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
MSG
. . .Don’t take this lightly. I’m not just saying this for some future generation, but for all of you. This age continues until all these things take place. Sky and earth will wear out; my words won’t wear out."
GNT
"Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died."

​

So what happened? Nothing happened, that's what happened.

The sun never became dark.
The moon still gives light.
The stars are still in the sky,
Everything in the sky has not changed.
And everyone did not see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky.​

​

Question: How could Jesus (god) have been so terribly wrong?



*source

.

The word translated as "generation" has six meanings, five of which refer to a people group, not a current generation. I appreciate your desire to quote paraphrase, liberal translations, but simply change to "The Jewish people will be in Israel when I Return" and you'll get the sense--which is near, at the door!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Yes, and bodies came out of the graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem, there were witnesses: Matthew 27:53 ...and they appeared unto many.

All of which we know is absolutely false-- as there is zero writings by **anyone** outside of the bible itself.

An event of thousands of walking dead? WOULD HAVE BEEN RECORDED BY SOMEONE.

We have records of OLIVE OIL SALES from that time and place, after all-- the mundane got recorded.

But not a Zombie Apocalypse? Never Happened.... pure Myth.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

unquote
written by William Lain Craig of reasonable faith
Thallus on the Darkness at Noon | Reasonable Faith

William Lain Craig? He's one of the Lyinest Liars to come down the pike in quite some time.

He makes Hal Lindsey seem rational by comparison.

What makes Craig worse? Is the subtleties of his blatant lies. He correctly counts on the fact that the majority of his Followers/Worshipers have never read much of the bible, have no clue how it Came To Be, and don't want any clues either. He routinely makes up horse exhaust on the fly-- just watch any number of the many "debates" where his subtle lying allows his worshipers to think he actually "won"....!

I would not trust a single word coming out of his two-forked mouth-- I wouldn't even presume he'd tell someone the correct time of day!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

This fact is recorded in Luke 23:44 and substantiated by millions of copies sold or given away.

So? Harry Potter novels have now out-sold all the bible sales, ever.

Argument From Popularity is a false logic. That substantiates nothing. It merely proves how gullible people who Want To Believe can be-- especially in large herds.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

A miraculous prophecy of zombie movies?

No-no--- that bible verse was predicting AMC's The Walking Dead, and to a lessor extent, the movies From Dusk Til Dawn...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Jesus' existence is vital in determining the answer to the question posed by the OP because it makes a difference as to how we interpret the passages provided in the OP.

yeah... ain't it a shame you have zero historical references to show such a person even existed in the first place...

.... makes one wonder: What Sort Of God, would carefully remove **all** historical references from all of History, that would show it existed?

A malicious one, that's what....!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Where can I check that out?

Here's one website, with a fairly readable list:

Bible Inconsistencies - Bible Contradictions

Here's a Wiki-style entry:

Biblical contradictions - RationalWiki

Here's an article about an interactive graphical chart of the bible contradictions, with a link to that site:

An Incredible Interactive Chart of Biblical Contradictions

And here's the Visible Bible (bibleviz) project, with graphical representations of the thousands of biblical contradictions and internal inconsistencies.

BibViz Project - Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized


Here's an example of the graph:

 

[shmogie]

Exactly. The "genea" are those of the anointed or 'chosen ones' who will rule with Christ in his kingdom.

All kingdoms need subjects, but these rulers are also priests. (Revelation 20:6) Since priests need sinners for whom to perform their duties, then this "genea" began to be chosen in the first century and continued to be chosen right up to the end times.

The apostasy that was foretold meant that after the first century the chosen ones became few in a corrupted religious system that continues to this day.The 'genea' that Jesus chose as his apostles formed the foundations of the Kingdom.....that 'genea' were greatly hindered by the apostasy that took place after the death of the apostles, and it was not until the "time of the end" that God's worshippers were cleansed and again gathered in great numbers. He provided an abundance of knowledge that led his people out of Babylon the great. (Daniel 12:4; Daniel 12;9-10; Revelation 18:4)

We believe that knowledge has been shared around the world by a single global brotherhood known for their preaching work in every nation. A work that Christendom has failed to carry out, preferring to stay cloistered away in their buildings and safely preaching to the converted.

The Church began being corrupted in the 2nd century, the 1st century was a period of being immediate post Apostolic and pretty much in the Apostolic method and beliefs.

I clearly understand your views regarding the 144,000 spoken of in one place, and one place only, the end times in the book of Revelation.

There is no Biblical justification for this belief.

Further, the way you good folk identify a living member of the group seems rather weak, they just have to declare themselves a member of this exalted group.

You have expanded the definition of genea beyond what it basically means, familial ancestry or progeny, the literal descendants of those alive at the time of Christ.

I have had many happy and productive hours with JW´s over the years. I am first to defend you when ignorant people deride you with some stupid idea of what you believe.

However, there are some very serious flaws in your theology.

Next to the secret return of Christ in 1914, ignoring everything He said about his first and second return, is the entire concept of the 144,000.

I have noticed a distinct hesitancy of my friends to discuss this. We have, but not in the verse by verse way to exegete an issue.

Nevertheless, it is a serious error of your denomination.

 

[shmogie]

yeah... ain't it a shame you have zero historical references to show such a person even existed in the first place...

.... makes one wonder: What Sort Of God, would carefully remove **all** historical references from all of History, that would show it existed?

A malicious one, that's what....!

Ever read Josephus, or some of the letters from the first century regarding Christ ?? No, I didn´t think so.

Tell me, how do you know Alexander the great existed ? How much contemporary documentation do you find about him ?

Few scholars doubt that Christ existed. You aren´t a scholar. Turbocharged opinions are still opinions.

 

[blü 2]

No-no--- that bible verse was predicting AMC's The Walking Dead, and to a lessor extent, the movies From Dusk Til Dawn...

Based on Matthew, eh? I'll be danged ─ them prophets!

 

[shmogie]

The word translated as "generation" has six meanings, five of which refer to a people group, not a current generation. I appreciate your desire to quote paraphrase, liberal translations, but simply change to "The Jewish people will be in Israel when I Return" and you'll get the sense--which is near, at the door!

Correct, the Greek word is genea. it has a number of meanings, one of which is people with familial connects, past, present, and future.

Therefore He was saying the genea ( descendants ) of those present would witness these things.

This is the difference between actual study to understand and superficial reading to criticize and jeer, the angry atheists objective, always.

If they were half intelligent as they think they are, they would at least make arguments that aren´t as easy to refute as this one.