So what is everyone's thoughts on this documentary on evolution ?

[zach-harris]

the whole thing of fish like creatures to lizard to mouse to mammal to monkey type creatures to finally us just seems so unbelievable.

And "SHAZAM, god did it" doesn't ask you to think about it.

I understand why ignorant people hold to this theory because it's been taught to them throughout their school lives and present culture.

And this is how your religion became dominate, too. and with no evidence or research.

Hitler got one thing right: "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

Again, this is how your religion became dominate. And how Rump came to power.

was this genetic manipulation on a "close enough" mammal design?

"Survival of the fittest" always makes me laugh. It IS survival of the "close enough"

Except for the anomaly that we and what we call ET are all bipedal.

I'm only concerned with the basic design "picture." Why is it that intelligent life straight across the board - are bipeds?

Except:
(A) ETs are FICTION. (sorry, Quester, if saying this is rude.)
We humans created them to look like us.
Just like we created an IMMORTAL (non reproducing) god to be male. A true immortal would not need a gender.
Hollywood needs human actors to play the ETs. SciFi books are a little more open to non-bipeds. (You should read some SciFi)
(B) Dolphins and Octopi are extremely intelligent, and not bipedal.
Maybe as intelligent as us, but it is very difficult to compare.
True, Dolphins haven't built anything. But if you didn't have hands, and could surf all day, you wouldn't bother building anything either.

That could happen but I m not sure because that's probably a very long time away.

YOLO!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It would be a stretch to doubt evolution back in 1970. Now that we are at 2024, it is just pointless.

Well, in practice yes. In the theorectically sense that there are no absolute truth in sceince, no.

And if you are going down the route of in effect you don't care about that, because it is more reasonable... then I will point out that it is a case of subjective cognition in you and not evidence.

As I learned to understand science, I learned it the following way:
I don't know anything about any future result of a test. I have a model that predicts an outcome, but that is a prediction in me and the prediction is tested against what actually happens. That is Popper's falsifiable.
The model is not true or anything. It is a prediction of what you except to happen in your mind. That is all.

Now if you have learned to do it differently I would like to hear about that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The idea is, that either evolution is a "normal" occurring change in biological development that leads to an "intelligent design" (and if that's true why did just happen in primates), or, "someone" in the distant past made genetic changes to the living creatures that were the best proto-bideds in the development process.

Humans are primates. Physical and genetic similarities show that the modern human species, Homo sapiens, has a very close relationship to another group of primate species, the apes. Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa.

Introduction to Human Evolution

humanorigins.si.edu

The idea simply revolves around the picture that all intelligent life, here and "up there" are bidedal beings. We all LOOK different, but we all have the same "structural build."

Evolution is not a ladder and has no "goal" in terms of traits.
In so far as it can be said to have a "goal", it is only towards optimization in context of the environment the subject happens to find itself in.
But even there it is wrong to talk about a "goal".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm only concerned with the basic design "picture." Why is it that intelligent life straight across the board - are bipeds?

"across the board"?

You mean in that set of ONE species that we actually know about?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You have no clue what humor is either.

The subject matter for this thread is:

So what is everyone's thoughts on this documentary on evolution?​

My question has to do with the rise of intelligent life on this planet via "evolution," that also, oddly, connects with the identical picture we have of "intelligent life" from other worlds.

It's called antropomorphism.

The "picture" we have of "intelligent life from other worlds" is a picture of imagination.

 

[Quester]

It's called antropomorphism.

The "picture" we have of "intelligent life from other worlds" is a picture of imagination.

Great ... prove it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Great ... prove it.

Well, to be honest it is unknown. Just as your claim is unknown.

 

[shunyadragon]

Great ... prove it.

Proof?!?!?! There is no such thing of proof here.

 

[Quester]

Well, to be honest it is unknown. Just as your claim is unknown.

My "claim" is a question, based on what information we have. Your statement regarding "intelligent life from other worlds" is a picture of imagination" dismisses all the information out there. Let me give you an example.
Years back when I was a teen, I was sitting on the front steps of our home, and as I sat there, I noticed what we call a "ball of light" moving south in the sky. Back then (mid 60s) I never even considered seeing a UFO, and simply thought it was a plane. Then it started to slow down. Hmm. Then it stopped. Planes don't stop. As I watched, it started to move around a little, and all of a sudden, from this dead stop, it shot out to the east at a speed that was unimaginable. It was at this point i realized it was a UFO. In my head, all I could imagine was that everyone on this craft was plastered up against the wall and dead.

I've have other sightings, but this was the best one.

WE have no technology that could have been the explanation for what I saw. This experience, added to the long list of experiences others have had, can't be answered any other way, unless you deliberately dismiss it.

There is life "out there" ... granted, some experiences (to me) make no sense and are either the product of endogenous DMT during sleep, or, the paranormal. Whatever the case, there's a list of definitive experiences that are (like mine above) NOT "imagination."

Add to this the idea of the physical bipedal build of these beings, and the topic approach of our evolutionary build, my added question boils down to - is this a normal happening - or - did "someone" genetically manipulate us via a close species (primates) so we'd develop like that?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My "claim" is a question, based on what information we have. Your statement regarding "intelligent life from other worlds" is a picture of imagination" dismisses all the information out there. Let me give you an example.
...

I didn't make that statement. I stateted that it is currently unknown if there is life other places in the universe.
Now it makes sense to accept that it could be the case, but that is something else.

So for your experinces, well, those are yours. But as for general evidence there is none as far as I can tell.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Great ... prove it.

Prove what?
That our renditions of what intelligent aliens might look like stems from our imagination since we never met such aliens?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My "claim" is a question, based on what information we have. Your statement regarding "intelligent life from other worlds" is a picture of imagination" dismisses all the information out there. Let me give you an example.
Years back when I was a teen, I was sitting on the front steps of our home, and as I sat there, I noticed what we call a "ball of light" moving south in the sky. Back then (mid 60s) I never even considered seeing a UFO, and simply thought it was a plane. Then it started to slow down. Hmm. Then it stopped. Planes don't stop. As I watched, it started to move around a little, and all of a sudden, from this dead stop, it shot out to the east at a speed that was unimaginable. It was at this point i realized it was a UFO. In my head, all I could imagine was that everyone on this craft was plastered up against the wall and dead.

I've have other sightings, but this was the best one.

WE have no technology that could have been the explanation for what I saw. This experience, added to the long list of experiences others have had, can't be answered any other way, unless you deliberately dismiss it.

There is life "out there" ... granted, some experiences (to me) make no sense and are either the product of endogenous DMT during sleep, or, the paranormal. Whatever the case, there's a list of definitive experiences that are (like mine above) NOT "imagination."

You might want to consider 3 things:

1. what the "U" in "UFO" stands for
2. what the argument from ignorance is
3. why sightings of UFO's claimed to be "alien spacecraft" isn't higher, and in fact is much lower, among both professional as well as amateur astronomers as opposed to the general population while in fact these are people that stare at the sky A LOT MORE then your average joe in the general population

Point 3 is answered by Neil deGrass Tyson with the following: "Because we actually know what the heck we are looking at......." btw

Add to this the idea of the physical bipedal build of these beings

That's human imagination as such beings have never been observed.

, and the topic approach of our evolutionary build, my added question boils down to - is this a normal happening - or - did "someone" genetically manipulate us via a close species (primates) so we'd develop like that?

Your question makes no sense as it is grounded in assumption based ignorance.
It takes human imagination and artist renditions as if they are factual.

 

[Quester]

Your question makes no sense as it is grounded in assumption based ignorance.
It takes human imagination and artist renditions as if they are factual.

Assumption based ignorance? That's it, I've had it with the trolls on the forum. G'bye.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, in practice yes. In the theorectically sense that there are no absolute truth in sceince, no.

And if you are going down the route of in effect you don't care about that, because it is more reasonable... then I will point out that it is a case of subjective cognition in you and not evidence.

As I learned to understand science, I learned it the following way:
I don't know anything about any future result of a test. I have a model that predicts an outcome, but that is a prediction in me and the prediction is tested against what actually happens. That is Popper's falsifiable.
The model is not true or anything. It is a prediction of what you except to happen in your mind. That is all.

Now if you have learned to do it differently I would like to hear about that.

Evidence matters. Falseability matters too.

At this point we pretty much have to raise solipsism in order to be uncertain about evolution.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Evidence matters. Falseability matters too.

At this point we pretty much have to raise solipsism in order to be uncertain about evolution.

Well, so which form of solipsism, is that? And are there other areas of philosophy that may also matter?

BTW that it matters, is not evidence because matters is a first person subjective evaluation. So you are a subjectivist as it matters and you then raise solipsism which is a form of subjectivism, so counter your subjectivism.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Assumption based ignorance? That's it, I've had it with the trolls on the forum. G'bye.

Trolls?

Dude... I don't know how many more times you require it to be pointed out.

We have not observed any intelligent aliens.

Yet, your entire argument is based on the supposed fact that they are humanoid bipeds...
We don't know that. Just because hollywood and pop culture like to portray aliens as such doesn't mean anything.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, so which form of solipsism, is that? And are there other areas of philosophy that may also matter?

BTW that it matters, is not evidence because matters is a first person subjective evaluation. So you are a subjectivist as it matters and you then raise solipsism which is a form of subjectivism, so counter your subjectivism.

I think you misunderstood me. Significantly.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think you misunderstood me. Significantly.

Yeah, maybe. But make your next post without any varaint of "I think". Only strong, hard, objective, scientifc with evidence observations for all of the world and how that in effect matters for your life as not really your life.

I ger mehofdological naturalism and science do that way, but I also get how it is methodlogical and not philosophical. How do you get that?

 

[LuisDantas]

Yeah, maybe. But make your next post without any varaint of "I think". Only strong, hard, objective, scientifc with evidence observations for all of the world and how that in effect matters for your life as not really your life.

I ger mehofdological naturalism and science do that way, but I also get how it is methodlogical and not philosophical. How do you get that?

Sorry, but I am not playing this game. You will accept that we are human beings and that science is science, or you will not.

Your decision to make, not mine.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sorry, but I am not playing this game. You will accept that we are human beings and that science is science, or you will not.

Your decision to make, not mine.

That science is sicence is the same in effect as God is God. I don¨t believe in any of those. But you seem to be a believer in one of those. So there is that.