So, who died for our sins before Jesus? JW.

[Jester80212]

It says in the bible and many may have heard that Jesus died for our sins. Being crucified on a cross for his beliefs in order to keep Gods people safe, from sin... So what was going on before Jesus, before the bible was even written? I'm just a curious soul looking for the truth.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It says in the bible and many may have heard that Jesus died for our sins. Being crucified on a cross for his beliefs in order to keep Gods people safe, from sin... So what was going on before Jesus, before the bible was even written? I'm just a curious soul looking for the truth.

In the Jewish tradition, it was livestock a lot of the time: sheep, goats, fatted calves, that sort of thing. If you look through the Old Testament, especially Leviticus, it spells out what sacrifice or other method of atonement was required for each type of sin.

Hence the term "Lamb of God" as a name for Jesus Christ: the idea is that as a perfect sacrifice, He is infinitely more satisfactory to God than a regular mortal lamb would be, and hence is enough sacrifice to answer for all of humanity's sins ever.

 

[Jester80212]

Considering the Jewish do not believe in Jesus, that really has not much prevalence in this discussion. Although I do see the point that people were sacrificing animals and other living organisms in order for forgiveness and redoubt from God.

I guess I should look at different methods of sacrifice pre B.C.?

 

[McBell]

Are you looking for something along the lines of this:
Parallels between the lives of Jesus and Horus, an Egyptian God

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Method of death:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Horus: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]By crucifixion[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]By crucifixion[/FONT]
​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Accompanied by:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Horus: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Two thieves[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Two thieves[/FONT]
​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Burial:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Horus: In a Tomb[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jesus: In a Tomb[/FONT]
​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Fate after death:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Horus: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Descended into Hell; resurrected after about 30 to 38 hours (Friday PM to presumably some time in Sunday AM) covering parts of three days
[/FONT]​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Resurrection announced by:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Horus: Women[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jesus: Women[/FONT]
​

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Future:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Horus; [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.[/FONT]​

 

[madhatter85]

It says in the bible and many may have heard that Jesus died for our sins. Being crucified on a cross for his beliefs in order to keep Gods people safe, from sin... So what was going on before Jesus, before the bible was even written? I'm just a curious soul looking for the truth.

It was the sacrificing of livestock and burnt offerings of crops in similitude of Chirst's sacrifice which was to come.

 

[kmkemp]

Considering the Jewish do not believe in Jesus, that really has not much prevalence in this discussion. Although I do see the point that people were sacrificing animals and other living organisms in order for forgiveness and redoubt from God.

I guess I should look at different methods of sacrifice pre B.C.?

What was a Christian before Jesus?

 

[Valjean]

I agree with 90% and the milliner. The Jesus myth is a human extension of the peculiar Hebrew tradition of Scape-Goat and animal sacrifice.

 

[madhatter85]

a jew

 

[Luke_17:2]

The only way to atone for your sins before the Lord Jesus Christ was to sacrifice frequently, and to believe in God (Jehovah). Even then, though, they didn't get into heaven. They went to paradise (aka Abrahams bosom) pending Jesus' ultimate sacrifice that would not only atone, but also wash away sins, thus allowing entrance into heaven.

So no one died. A lot of animals did. Mainly goats, lambs, bulls, etc. The poor were allowed to sacrifice either a meal or turtledoves.

The Levitical law described in the Book of Leviticus was symbolic of Jesus' death. As has already been mentioned, He acted as a lamb; but He also was the High Priest as he administered the offering. He reconciled mankind to God the same way the High Priest would reconcile the nation of Israel to God by sprinkling blood in the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle/temple.

 

[logician]

Why should anyone have to sacrifice themselves for such a hard to define concept as sin? The idea of blood sacrifice is actually quite old and barbaric.

 

[Random]

Why should anyone have to sacrifice themselves for such a hard to define concept as sin?

Perhaps it would make more sense if, @ least on a symbolic level, you thought of Sin as bad Karma, or more specifically spiritual Debt..? Jesus is purported to have paid it off.

The idea of blood sacrifice is actually quite old and barbaric.

Yes, that's true. The debt is blood, though...

 

[logician]

Perhaps it would make more sense if, @ least on a symbolic level, you thought of Sin as bad Karma, or more specifically spiritual Debt..? Jesus is purported to have paid it off.



Yes, that's true. The debt is blood, though...

I prefer to pay my own debts.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Hi!

Before Christ was crucified, people looked forward to the cross--the Messiah, as we look back on it. We see a picture of this in Abel's sacrifice and of the Jewish sacrifices, which cannot take away sin, but are a picture of redemption through Christ. Jesus paid for all the sins of the world. That is everyone from Adam to now. Here are some scriptures on this. A bit long, so I underlined the relevant phrases:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, (Jesus) he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Cheers!

 

[madhatter85]

It is the Old testament's version of repentance through the atonement of Christ because it had not happened yet.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I am reviving an old thread I know, but I have just never thought about this before. Why in the Nine Hells did people think that killing another living thing makes their "sin" repented for?! Why must something else be sacrificed for each persons mistakes? I am just really mind-blown. Well i screwed up so I'm gonna go sarifice that sheep....:sad4: i wouldn't have made it. I'd have been the most sin filled person in the world, and probably been burned at the stake before i sacrificed an animal for something stupid I did.

 

[madhatter85]

I am reviving an old thread I know, but I have just never thought about this before. Why in the Nine Hells did people think that killing another living thing makes their "sin" repented for?! Why must something else be sacrificed for each persons mistakes? I am just really mind-blown. Well i screwed up so I'm gonna go sarifice that sheep....:sad4: i wouldn't have made it. I'd have been the most sin filled person in the world, and probably been burned at the stake before i sacrificed an animal for something stupid I did.

different time, different place.

and hey Welcome to RF, we need more LDS here.

 

[crystalonyx]

Perhaps it would make more sense if, @ least on a symbolic level, you thought of Sin as bad Karma, or more specifically spiritual Debt..? Jesus is purported to have paid it off.



Yes, that's true. The debt is blood, though...

Yes, but the thread asks what about those who came before the supposed Jesus, or for that matter, who never heard of such a person after the fact.

I don't need my debts paid off by a 2000 year old myth.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

As I said before:

Hi!

Before Christ was crucified, people looked forward to the cross--the Messiah, as we look back on it. We see a picture of this in Abel's sacrifice and of the Jewish sacrifices, which cannot take away sin, but are a picture of redemption through Christ. Jesus paid for all the sins of the world. That is everyone from Adam to now. Here are some scriptures on this. A bit long, so I underlined the relevant phrases:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, (Jesus) he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Cheers!

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I agree with 90% and the milliner. The Jesus myth is a human extension of the peculiar Hebrew tradition of Scape-Goat and animal sacrifice.

Seyorni,

I love ya man, but I have to take issue with you here. Scape Goating and such was not peculiar to Hebrew tradition. Indeed in the fantastic book Pagan Christs, we learn that many society's throughout history have had similar traditions.

Most of these society's go through a fairly predictable evolution of their traditions, starting with sacrificing food, animals, then often enemies, then later they start breaking the arms and legs of the human sacrifice to make that person appear to be a willing sacrifice, then eventually when they become more civilized, (oh and these sacrifices, including the human beings were generally eaten, by the way) people began to substitute bread, and wine (ring any bells?) and such in the place of the human sacrifice, but eating it is still important. . . "this is my body, this is my blood."

The pattern above, or something similar, is seen in many different cultures over the millenia, and as recently as the last hundred years or so the Khonds of India were known to participate in the more bloody (and human) of the above mentioned sacrifices.

The Jesus event is the most famous and celebrated of these traditions, but I think it is not a peculiar event, sadly.

B.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

What was a Christian before Jesus?

There was no such thing as a "Christian" before Jesus, in just the same way as there were no Spaniards before the existence of Spain.

B.