Smoke
Done here.
So is God.
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So, who died for our sins before Jesus? JW.
- Thread starter Jester80212
- Start date
tomspug
Absorbant
Even though the Jews do not believe in 'Jesus', they DO believe in the concept of a Messiah. Jesus fulfilled that role, but he was not accepted by the non-believing Jews. The believing Jews formed Christianity.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Jesus also died to redeem those who lived before he did.
That would be like me telling you that the people who settled Spain had nothing to do with Spain. The Christian faith is built upon Judaism, so it is fair to say that a Christian, before Christ, was a Jew.
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
True, Christians were first called such at Antioch. However, throughout the Old Testament beginning in the Garden when God made clothing from animal skins for Adam and Eve after they sinned and found they were naked, to Abel's sacrifice from his flock, to the Jews looking forward to the Christ, the Messiah, men have understood the one important thing. God is holy, man is fallen. God is righteous, man is unrighteous. These animal sacrifices--without blood there is no remission of sin--were but a type, a picture of the great sacrifice of God's Son for the all the sins of all mankind from the beginning of the world. The wages of sin is death, Romans states. Since by one man, Adam, sin came into the world and thereby death, so by the death of one, the wages of sin for all was paid for. This is the great theme interwoven through the Old Testament scriptures and fulfilled in the New. Christ himself said he must suffer, die, and rise again for the remission of sins, IN FULFILLMENT OF SCRIPTURE, Old Testament! Haleluia, it is finished!
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
But what if I have no desire to have some esoteric debt paid off?
What if I never heard of this Jesus?
Your "path" is narrow and restricted.
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
The path to life is very narrow, but it does lead to life eternal. I can only share with you what the Bible says:
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mathew 7:14
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:6,9
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
UnityNow101
Well-Known Member
If evangelical Christianity is the narrow gate, than I guess anything is possible...The narrow gate to me signifies the few that realize that what separates us is just a figment of man's imagination. All religion is purposed to change the heart of the believers and to make the world a better place. There are only a few that believe this, although it has grown significantly within the past few years.
Jesus was a Jew I think it goes without saying there were no Christians before the death of Jesus. My fundamental understanding of what happens to people who came before Jesus is that they are damned unless they followed the God of Abraham so that kind of covers the Jews.
Francine
Well-Known Member
That just pushes the problem back to Abraham. What happened to all the people in China who never even heard of Abraham or his God?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
What do you think happens to them, Francine? Do you think God will send them to Hell?
Francine
Well-Known Member
You don't "go" to hell, if you hate God you are in a hellish situation after you die, because God's presence is much more intense and inescapable. If you love God then everything is hunky dory.
I see your point. As I recall from university there are two Biblical views on this the first which is kind of cruel but would explain the Christian idea of slavery and other races not being equal, the Chinese and everyone else as you put it were not Gods chosen people thus they went to hell or didn't have souls in the first place. The second idea presented to us is that as per the book of Genesis God created Adam and then Eve they were the first people and everyone came from them and were the Biblical Gods children thus they were saved. When you try to argue that there were already civilizations on Earth it gets complicated but one of the arguments was that the people here were of another god which is why the 10 commandments says worship none of the others but me anyway the arguments just go in circles and are not based in any sort of comprehensible logic.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I can more or less go along with that. But what about people whose cultures don't include the Abrahamic God?
Francine
Well-Known Member
I suppose they will attain to the Telestial Kingdom, or maybe even the Terrestrial Kingdom if they accept the 10 Commandments.
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
I prefer not to believe in a god that would torture anyone for eternity for the way they believe.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
You're not going to fight, are you?
Good, I was just testing the waters. I'd rather purr than hiss, too.
Francine
Well-Known Member
You're not going to fight, are you?
No,no, I think Mormons are awesome. I think doing good things outweighs having correct doctrines. I'm a practical person.
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
I'm sure Hitler did some good things.
Francine
Well-Known Member
He did. He ushered in the Volkswagon Beetle and Autobahns and brought the German people out of the economic despair of the Weimar Republic into the second largest industrial economy on earth at the time. It's just that his attempt to take over the world, while simultaneously killing every Jew he could get his hands on, far, far outweighed those good things.