So, who died for our sins before Jesus? JW.

[Vasilisa Jade]

Tigeress, are you a vegitarian? It's like saying a prayer before a meal. Sacrificing an animal to GOD is a way to show worship and gratitude. The meat is shared amongst neighbors and consumed.

Sorry about that!

Alllllrightyyyyy.....

We must eat to survive.... (I am not a vegetarian) Animals must eat to survive. It is nature. When I say a prayer before a meal I am thanking God for blessing me with the ability to nourish my body... and then sometimes even blessing the animal, giving thanks to it for providing food, and wishing it's spirit a happy journey. We are animals, and we are omnivores, which is how we were created, even though we have the ability to refrain from eating meat...

That is completely different than sacrifice. I am assuming here that the animal is not eaten, but burned or something.... kept for parts or something. It is not neccessary. It is a stupid ritual designed as a cop out for people with guilty counciounce who are too scared to risk recieving retribution for thier actions themselves so they want to sacrifice an innocent animal to appease an angry God. That is the circumstance I was thinking of anyway. It's stupid! If someone tried to kick my cat because of something I did they would die. If someone tried to kick my cat because of something my cat did I would rather be kicked instead, because they are incapable of knowingly doing wrong.

Even if a sacrifice was blessed and offered to God and then eaten... I still think it's stupid! I would not want to messing with a God that rejoices in the death of innocent beings. Like I said, when I say a prayer before dinner I bless the animal and thank the animal. I thank God for the nourishment. I do not offer the death as a sacrifice. It is a sacrifice on the part of the animal so that I may continue to live, nothing more nothing less.

Whooooooooo........ I'm all huffy now. Don't anyone let me catch you hurting an animal unless you're eating it. It won't be pretty:verymad:!

 

[Yeshua_Lives]

Sorry about that!

Alllllrightyyyyy.....

We must eat to survive.... (I am not a vegetarian) Animals must eat to survive. It is nature. When I say a prayer before a meal I am thanking God for blessing me with the ability to nourish my body... and then sometimes even blessing the animal, giving thanks to it for providing food, and wishing it's spirit a happy journey. We are animals, and we are omnivores, which is how we were created, even though we have the ability to refrain from eating meat...

That is completely different than sacrifice. I am assuming here that the animal is not eaten, but burned or something.... kept for parts or something. It is not neccessary. It is a stupid ritual designed as a cop out for people with guilty counciounce who are too scared to risk recieving retribution for thier actions themselves so they want to sacrifice an innocent animal to appease an angry God. That is the circumstance I was thinking of anyway. It's stupid! If someone tried to kick my cat because of something I did they would die. If someone tried to kick my cat because of something my cat did I would rather be kicked instead, because they are incapable of knowingly doing wrong.

Even if a sacrifice was blessed and offered to God and then eaten... I still think it's stupid! I would not want to messing with a God that rejoices in the death of innocent beings. Like I said, when I say a prayer before dinner I bless the animal and thank the animal. I thank God for the nourishment. I do not offer the death as a sacrifice. It is a sacrifice on the part of the animal so that I may continue to live, nothing more nothing less.

Whooooooooo........ I'm all huffy now. Don't anyone let me catch you hurting an animal unless you're eating it. It won't be pretty:verymad:!

so your saying that it's okay to sacrifice an animal as long as your going to eat it.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

so your saying that it's okay to sacrifice an animal as long as your going to eat it.

I am saying I think it is silly to offer an animals death to God, becuase I believe in a God that does not rejoice in death, and would not take it as an "offering." But I may be wrong. God may get a kick out of burning kittens and puppy blood. I will still only condone the death of animals for nourishment though, even if that was the case.

 

[Yeshua_Lives]

I am saying I think it is silly to offer an animals death to God, becuase I believe in a God that does not rejoice in death, and would not take it as an "offering." But I may be wrong. God may get a kick out of burning kittens and puppy blood. I will still only condone the death of animals for nourishment though, even if that was the case.

It's not an animals death that is offered to GOD. It's a homage, an acknowledgment of respect and gratitude before GOD.

People (Christians) did away with animal sacrifice after Jesus Christ, who is referred to by his apostles as "the Lamb of God," the one to whom all sacrifices pointed (Hebrews 10).

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

IMHO, I think the concept behind the crucifixion of Christ is a bit whacky too. It is the ultimate loving sacrifice yes... but, I am quite capable of taking my own beating for my wrong doings. I think somewhere along the lines it all became a little more dramatic than what it should have been. Everyone should take full responsibility for thier own actions. You wanna sacrifice something to God in homage? Sacrifice yourself. You wanna be evil and sinful? Expect punishment for it unless you repent truthfully. Nothing and no one should have to suffer and die unjustly because people are too stupid to be moral, too coward to reap what they sow, or too dense to find a better way to offer respect and gratitude.

I suppose that would be why Jesus is worshipped and is the cornerstone of christianity. It is beyond me how someone could be so sacrificial for such stupidity and cowardice. (btw I am not exempting myself here... just acknowledging it).

Don't mind me..... I don't mean any offense. Me thinks I'm in a bad mood.........

 

[logician]

Sacrificing anyone for such an esoteric concept as "sin" really is illogical. The concept of "sin", varies from culture to culture, and is hard to define in concrete terms.

 

[ABLATT]

Why should anyone have to sacrifice themselves for such a hard to define concept as sin? The idea of blood sacrifice is actually quite old and barbaric.

Actually the bible defines sin quite simply...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Actually the bible defines sin quite simply...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Lets see....

I am doing good if and only if I am making my cuddle-buddy feel hot.

I am making my buddy feel hot and football tackling my cuddle-buddy.

I am sinning if and only if I do not make my cuddle-buddy feel hot.

Therefore, not football tackling my cuddle buddy is a sin.

And we all know what happens after they get football tackled yes???

So Hah! I am avoiding sin!


How is my proof/argument? It is probably real crappy and doesn't even work in proper form. I have never tried to make one before. Maybe someone better at it can help me.... ahem... Mestemia...Sunstone... where are you guys???

 

[crystalonyx]

Actually the bible defines sin quite simply...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

What if him thinketh everything to be good? Or bad? Or if his peers do. This concept cannot work.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Okay so I am still worikin on this here.......

Me thinks I made it a little better....


P ^ ~ q therefore r

To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is a sin.

P = know to do good q=doeth not therefore r=sin
~q = doeth


p

Tackling my cuddle buddy is good which I know.


Q -> r
If I doeth it not it is a sin.

P v r

Therefore I must tackle my cuddle-buddy or it is a sin.



.... I am still playing with this idea though..... lol

 

[ABLATT]

Knowing God's law...
good- here in the Hebrew meant "good, literally and morally"

The word of God is our judge.

 

[Yeshua_Lives]

IMHO, I think the concept behind the crucifixion of Christ is a bit whacky too. It is the ultimate loving sacrifice yes... but, I am quite capable of taking my own beating for my wrong doings. I think somewhere along the lines it all became a little more dramatic than what it should have been. Everyone should take full responsibility for thier own actions. You wanna sacrifice something to God in homage? Sacrifice yourself. You wanna be evil and sinful? Expect punishment for it unless you repent truthfully. Nothing and no one should have to suffer and die unjustly because people are too stupid to be moral, too coward to reap what they sow, or too dense to find a better way to offer respect and gratitude.

I suppose that would be why Jesus is worshipped and is the cornerstone of christianity. It is beyond me how someone could be so sacrificial for such stupidity and cowardice. (btw I am not exempting myself here... just acknowledging it).

Don't mind me..... I don't mean any offense. Me thinks I'm in a bad mood.........

That's just it. We are ALL responsible for our own actions. When one turns to the Lord \ GOD and accepts the "gift" of salvation, that person moves out of Darkness and into the Light. Wrong doing occurs when one deviates from the path of the Lord.

Look what happens to people throughout history who tried to do the "RIGHT" thing.

Jesus - Killed
Abe Lincoln - Killed
Ghandi - Killed
John Kennedy - Killed
Malcolm X - Killed
Robert Kennedy - Killed
Martin Luther King - Killed

The list goes on.

Why did these people die? Because of others stupidity and cowardice.

It's all in the story of the New Testament.

 

[kai]

the answer my friend is blowing in the wind the ans------------------

 

[mudge991]

It says in the bible and many may have heard that Jesus died for our sins. Being crucified on a cross for his beliefs in order to keep Gods people safe, from sin... So what was going on before Jesus, before the bible was even written? I'm just a curious soul looking for the truth.

the same person as after "jesus" --- no one. Until people stop buying into the scapegoat religions, they will always be looking for a "messiah" to cover their own shortcomings. Personal responsibility for everything you do should be their religion. Whatever you've done, whatever you've been, is, totally, 100%, your own fault. All.

You should not need someone to relieve you of all the garbage you have done if you are going to be responsible to others. Take ownership and stop whining.

 

[logician]

Sin is to esoteric a concept to need "saving" from.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Sin is to esoteric a concept to need "saving" from.

Sin is an archery term which means to miss the mark. Read Proverbs, it has much praise for intelligence.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

the same person as after "jesus" --- no one. Until people stop buying into the scapegoat religions, they will always be looking for a "messiah" to cover their own shortcomings. Personal responsibility for everything you do should be their religion. Whatever you've done, whatever you've been, is, totally, 100%, your own fault. All.

You should not need someone to relieve you of all the garbage you have done if you are going to be responsible to others. Take ownership and stop whining.

Who's whining now?

 

[kai]

jeremy Mason i see you are from colorado in colorado before jesus came , you would be going about your business as usual and after jesus came untill the coming of -----------------the christians da da da daaaaaaam

 

[logician]

Sin is an archery term which means to miss the mark. Read Proverbs, it has much praise for intelligence.

Whose mark, depends on the culture, the individual, their mental stability, again, very esoteric.

Also, Proverbs ain't the gospels.

 

[cardero]

9-10ths_Penguin writes: In the Jewish tradition, it was livestock a lot of the time: sheep, goats, fatted calves, that sort of thing.

A tradition that I (and Hannafords, Super STOP and SHOP, Price Chopper) believe continues even today.