Socialism gets pretty ugly

[Spiderman]

The National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party, and the Communist Parties (which have a higher kill count) are both socialist.

Why has socialism turned so ugly?

 

[Revoltingest]

Well....you've poked the hornet's nest.
I've done this recently, so I'll let someone else start here.

 

[Orbit]

You are confused by what is meant by "Socialism".

 

[Revoltingest]

You are confused by what is meant by "Socialism".

I don't think there's any agreed upon definition for it.
Those who like it tend to reject dictionary the dictionary
definitions I've offered. Makes it hard to discuss, eh.

 

[lukethethird]

Socialism as it is now is for the rich, leaving the middle class to erode, and the rest are left to pay for everything, it's the age old class struggle.

 

[Spiderman]

You are confused by what is meant by "Socialism".

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

[lukethethird]

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

It doesn't have to be applied to all means of production. A healthy combination of social programs and capitalism can allow for a nation of people to thrive.

 

[Lyndon]

Scandinavia is socialist, nazis were not, they were fascist

 

[Nakosis]

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The "community" usually being the government which might work out fine if not for corruption. I think humans will naturally gravitate towards a power structure. Some person or group in government ends up controlling the decisions which places them in a position of power. Power ends up corrupting folks.

The idea of community ownership doesn't work because humans are not psychologically geared for it. The diversity of interests among humans is too great.

Government social programs is not socialism. The government does not produce anything. Providing a system of distribution doesn't make it socialism.

 

[Father Heathen]

Socialism at it's most basic core is sharing, and capitalism at it's most basic core is bartering. Both are benign, yet both can be taken to abusive/exploitative extremes.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

To me, that definition contains the seeds of its own destruction. Because the community is "everybody" in it, and what is owned by "everybody" and therefore everybody has a say in regulating it. But that's a problem, because how each individual in that "everybody" thinks is how those goods (production, distribution and exchange) can provide what each individual wants … without any thought for what each individual is or ought to be obligated to contribute. Everybody has a claim, nobody has an obligation.

Competition, and yes, capitalism, seems to me a much healthier notion, but (as with all else we humans contrive) the need for a little regulation. We humans are indeed a social species, but unlike other social animals (like birds, bees and the like) we have the capacity to override our social nature with pure selfishness. That's where things get rough for this species...and who can deny we are the most conflicted single species (among ourselves) that nature has ever produced? Yes, we need a few rules...

 

[Twilight Hue]

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Or as it's more popularly called, Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Revoltingest]

Or as it's more popularly called, Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

No, it's more that Peter & Paul work for the state, since it, in the name
of "the people" or "the community" owns/runs all the businesses.
Ans woe unto those who incur the only employer's disdain.

 

[Spiderman]

Scandinavia is socialist, nazis were not, they were fascist

Many argue that fascism has its roots in socialism or communism
Nazism, Fascism, and Socialism Are All Rooted in Communism

It sounds like Scandinavia overall is doing fine.
Socialism can work, but the people who are taking the wealth and distributing it need to have sound mind and morality.

 

[Sunstone]

The National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party, and the Communist Parties (which have a higher kill count) are both socialist.

Why has socialism turned so ugly?

I'd wager money you can't tell us the differences between the Nazis, any of the Communist Parties, and socialism. Better than money, I'll bet you one week's thread starting. If you can't, you go one full week before you start a new thread. What do you say?

 

[Spiderman]

I'd wager money you can't tell us the differences between the Nazis, any of the Communist Parties, and socialism. Better than money, I'll bet you one week's thread starting. If you can't, you go one full week before you start a new thread. What do you say?

Well I know Nazism is far right and communism is far left. That's a big difference, no? I'd argue there are many different interpretations of Marxism.

Socialism certainly works in Scandinavia.

Okay, you can ban my account for a week if you like.

 

[Sunstone]

Well I know Nazism is far right and communism is far left. That's a big difference, no? I'd argue there are many different interpretations of Marxism.

Socialism certainly works in Scandinavia.

Okay, you can ban my account for a week if you like.

Don't tempt me. Is that the best you can do?

 

[Spiderman]

Don't tempt me. Is that the best you can do?

First thing is first. Who has the correct interpretation of Marxism? who has the correct interpretation of socialism?

 

[Spiderman]

Don't tempt me. Is that the best you can do?

Im more educated about the spread and atrocities of Communists and Fascists, less-educated about
state collectivism, planned economies, and class struggle.

 

[Sunstone]

Im more educated about the spread and atrocities of Communists and Fascists, less-educated about
state collectivism, planned economies, and class struggle.

To the less educated category, you could easily add socialism.