Socialism gets pretty ugly

[Spiderman]

To the less educated category, you could easily add socialism.

What I will say is socialism has gotten ugly under various regimes. I can't fathom any of us can argue against that.

But, if socialism were practiced in theory, it could potentially resemble the religious communities that I have been to, where almost everything belongs to the community, and the monks, Friars, or nuns, almost own nothing individually.

It works fabulously for them.

 

[Milton Platt]

The National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party, and the Communist Parties (which have a higher kill count) are both socialist.

Why has socialism turned so ugly?

I don't think having the word "socialist" in one's party name guarantees the party is actually that.

 

[Spiderman]

I don't think having the word "socialist" in one's party name guarantees the party is actually that.

National socialism and the doctrine of fascism certainly renounces many interpretations of Marxism.

 

[Stevicus]

The National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party, and the Communist Parties (which have a higher kill count) are both socialist.

Why has socialism turned so ugly?

Well, at least in terms of kill count, I addressed this issue more in the context of comparing capitalism with communism over the grand scale of history and taking into consideration the 20 worst things people have done to each other: The answer is a communist party

Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

After totalling up the score, at least based on the events listed in the above link, it came to:

Capitalists: 322,500,000
Communists: 68,000,000

The capitalists killed nearly 5 times more than the communists - and that's not even counting the less significant events over the past 4000 years which would likely make the capitalist score even higher.

The capitalists ruled the roost for millennia, committing atrocities and abuses of power far too numerous to list - and they did so century after century after century.

Eventually, the common people decided "Hey, we're getting tired of being treated like crap!"

Socialism was born into an ugly world, and the main reason they "turned ugly" because that was the way of the world as they were taught and raised. They had to overcome manifest opposition from those who would rather blow the world to smithereens than have to give people decent living wages, healthcare, education, affordable housing, or anything else that might enhance or improve their standard of living.

When we're talking about individuals of such low moral character as to live in the lap of luxury while their workers live in squalor, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or even an economist) to figure out why the workers would start to get a wee bit ticked off or even start to get ugly.

Oh, and the Nazis were definitely capitalists. If you don't believe me, you can ask the big wigs at I.G. Farben, Hugo Boss, the Krupp Family - or even Henry Ford.

Nazism is nationalism, which is a natural consequence of unchecked capitalism. Both nationalism and capitalism subscribe to principles of dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest, so the connection is clear.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, at least in terms of kill count, I addressed this issue more in the context of comparing capitalism with communism over the grand scale of history and taking into consideration the 20 worst things people have done to each other: The answer is a communist party

Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

After totalling up the score, at least based on the events listed in the above link, it came to:

Capitalists: 322,500,000
Communists: 68,000,000

The capitalists killed nearly 5 times more than the communists - and that's not even counting the less significant events over the past 4000 years which would likely make the capitalist score even higher.

The capitalists ruled the roost for millennia, committing atrocities and abuses of power far too numerous to list - and they did so century after century after century.

Eventually, the common people decided "Hey, we're getting tired of being treated like crap!"

Socialism was born into an ugly world, and the main reason they "turned ugly" because that was the way of the world as they were taught and raised. They had to overcome manifest opposition from those who would rather blow the world to smithereens than have to give people decent living wages, healthcare, education, affordable housing, or anything else that might enhance or improve their standard of living.

When we're talking about individuals of such low moral character as to live in the lap of luxury while their workers live in squalor, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or even an economist) to figure out why the workers would start to get a wee bit ticked off or even start to get ugly.

Oh, and the Nazis were definitely capitalists. If you don't believe me, you can ask the big wigs at I.G. Farben, Hugo Boss, the Krupp Family - or even Henry Ford. Nazism is nationalism, which is a natural consequence of unchecked capitalism. Both nationalism and capitalism subscribe to principles of dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest, so the connection is clear.

Oh, no....not this again.
We debunked your ridiculous numbers in another thread,
eg, your claim that all the WW2 deaths were due to capitalism.

 

[Stevicus]

Oh, no....not this again.
We debunked your ridiculous numbers in another thread,
eg, your claim that all the WW2 deaths were due to capitalism.

I'm sure you believe that you debunked it, but you didn't even come close.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, at least in terms of kill count, I addressed this issue more in the context of comparing capitalism with communism over the grand scale of history and taking into consideration the 20 worst things people have done to each other: The answer is a communist party

Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

After totalling up the score, at least based on the events listed in the above link, it came to:

Capitalists: 322,500,000
Communists: 68,000,000

The capitalists killed nearly 5 times more than the communists - and that's not even counting the less significant events over the past 4000 years which would likely make the capitalist score even higher.

The capitalists ruled the roost for millennia, committing atrocities and abuses of power far too numerous to list - and they did so century after century after century.

Eventually, the common people decided "Hey, we're getting tired of being treated like crap!"

Socialism was born into an ugly world, and the main reason they "turned ugly" because that was the way of the world as they were taught and raised. They had to overcome manifest opposition from those who would rather blow the world to smithereens than have to give people decent living wages, healthcare, education, affordable housing, or anything else that might enhance or improve their standard of living.

When we're talking about individuals of such low moral character as to live in the lap of luxury while their workers live in squalor, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or even an economist) to figure out why the workers would start to get a wee bit ticked off or even start to get ugly.

Oh, and the Nazis were definitely capitalists. If you don't believe me, you can ask the big wigs at I.G. Farben, Hugo Boss, the Krupp Family - or even Henry Ford.

Nazism is nationalism, which is a natural consequence of unchecked capitalism. Both nationalism and capitalism subscribe to principles of dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest, so the connection is clear.

I don't agree with the numbers you came up with, but I do really appreciate your post.

Socialism came to the world in an extremely horrific moment in history.

 

[Spiderman]

Any form of government can get very ugly.

Perhaps I shouldn't be singling out Socialism.

Especially considering the kings and queens that the Catholic church has crowned or supported.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sure you believe that you debunked it, but you didn't even come close.

Then show people here your assumptions & calculations.
Like how you blame WW2 deaths on capitalism.

 

[Revoltingest]

Socialism came to the world in an extremely horrific moment in history.

Coincidence?

 

[Spiderman]

Coincidence?

Tis another point worthy of consideration

 

[Revoltingest]

Tis another point worthy of consideration

One thing to look at is whether the big 20th century
deaths had socialist policies as proximate cause.
Certainly, USSR & PRC famines were.
The other poster's claim that WW2 was capitalism
is attributable to no economic system.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm for compassionate government.
Socialism has the potential to be very compassionate.

I'm just very suspicious of big government when it falls into the hands of sociopaths.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't agree with the numbers you came up with, but I do really appreciate your post.

Socialism came to the world in an extremely horrific moment in history.

The numbers are really nothing more than a testament of man's inhumanity to man. It's not socialism which "gets pretty ugly," but it's humanity itself.

Socialism, however naive or idealistic it might have been, sought to find ways to improve humanity by advocating a more cooperative, benevolent society - not the dog-eat-dog social Darwinism of nationalism, imperialism, or capitalism.

 

[Milton Platt]

National socialism and the doctrine of fascism certainly renounces many interpretations of Marxism.

Pope, I am not very conversant on all the governmental "isms", so I choose not to pontificate about them much. If I dare do so, I will be shown to be lacking in understanding of most of them.

 

[Spiderman]

The numbers are really nothing more than a testament of man's inhumanity to man. It's not socialism which "gets pretty ugly," but it's humanity itself.

Socialism, however naive or idealistic it might have been, sought to find ways to improve humanity by advocating a more cooperative, benevolent society - not the dog-eat-dog social Darwinism of nationalism, imperialism, or capitalism.

Your post makes me want to cry.

But I appreciate it!

 

[Spiderman]

Pope, I am not very conversant on all the governmental "isms", so I choose not to pontificate about them much. If I dare do so, I will be shown to be lacking in understanding of most of them.

I respect your honesty.
I should not have commented the way I did either

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm for compassionate government.
Socialism has the potential to be very compassionate.

I'm just very suspicious of big government when it falls into the hands of sociopaths.

Any system has the potential to be compassionate.
But which systems are most likely to exhibit this trait?
Look at the real world results. We see that the more
socialist a system is (eg, USSR, PRC, NK), the more
authoritarian & inhumane it is.
People seem to be most fond of capitalist systems
which have a social safety net...the Scandinavian
model.

 

[Spiderman]

Pope Francis is arguably a socialist.
"I don't know whether it’s communism, but it is socialism. He's talking about community, about living in harmony,” Morales said July 10. He added: “I feel like now I have a Pope.”
Is the Pope a socialist?

But he does reject marxism

 

[Milton Platt]

I respect your honesty.
I should not have commented the way I did either

I did not see anything wrong with your comment. Carry on Mr. Pope, err.....Mr Dope???