Socialists may have the same mentality as Nazis: that people must be enslaved

[Stevicus]

You aren't.
Because I skip most of the fluff.

Skipping great wisdom, you are.

You've the confidence of a very stable genius.

As do you, apparently.

There are many I've not answered.
This avoids wasting my time.

It looks to me like you'd rather waste an hour in a back-and-forth exchange avoiding a question rather than spending a minute answering it. Doesn't seem like saving time to me, but then, it's your time to waste. No skin off me.

Primarily because I want to dissuade people
from pursuing ever more wrongful government
control over us

But there's 100% probability that people will
pursue policies that lean in a socialist direction,
eg, price controls, government confiscation of
assets. These have already been done, & many
want such policies increased.

But then, if it's really this important to you, why do you put in such a low effort to try to persuade people? Why not try harder?

 

[Nakosis]

Socialists are simply evil capitalists with a preference for spending other people's money.

 

[Revoltingest]

Skipping great wisdom, you are.



As do you, apparently.



It looks to me like you'd rather waste an hour in a back-and-forth exchange avoiding a question rather than spending a minute answering it. Doesn't seem like saving time to me, but then, it's your time to waste. No skin off me.



But then, if it's really this important to you, why do you put in such a low effort to try to persuade people? Why not try harder?

I've nothing to add.

 

[Estro Felino]

Are you claiming that all services
are "the means of production"?
Even Donald Trump's?
I say that they don't produce anything,
so I wouldn't include them. Accounting
services differ in that they're integral to
the means of production.

Bankers don't produce anything either.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm surprised this myth still lives.

It lives in their fantasy world...
I mean the prices of goods and services also depend on the taxes, on fuels prices...on tariffs, on regulations.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It lives in their fantasy world...
I mean the prices of goods and services also depend on the taxes, on fuels prices...on tariffs, on regulations.

Rent, electric bill, advertising, believing supply and demand determines prices is naive, especially when we know companies like Disney create artificial "scarcity" to artificially inflate prices for movies.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Rent, electric bill, advertising, believing supply and demand determines prices is naive, especially when we know companies like Disney create artificial "scarcity" to artificially inflate prices for movies.

The supply and demand system is mostly used as a control of price and profit through rationing.
Price controls are one way to limit excesses, used when supply is artificially suppressed.
Or used short term to stabilise prices when critical shortages are uncontrollable.
Price controls are a political decision to control the effects of a supply problems.
In times of war or emergency they are often combined with the rationing of staples.

 

[Estro Felino]

The supply and demand system is mostly used as a control of price and profit through rationing.
Price controls are one way to limit excesses, used when supply is artificially suppressed.
Or used short term to stabilise prices when critical shortages are uncontrollable.
Price controls are a political decision to control the effects of a supply problems.
In times of war or emergency they are often combined with the rationing of staples.

There is no shortage of cigarettes, yet they are very expensive because of the taxes imposed on them by the State.
Quite the contrary: there is a huge quantity of unsold tobacco.

 

[Heyo]

You speak in absolutes.
I see spectra.

This thread is about socialism...the kind
without a prefix that changes the meaning.

You don't say!

Do you see the contradiction?

 

[Heyo]

As for the Socialist of the Communist party..... you should probably know

1. Xi Jinping, the President of China, who is estimated to have a personal net worth of over $1 billion through his family's business dealings and real estate investments.
2. Kim Jong-un, the Supreme Leader of North Korea, who has access to a vast personal slush fund estimated at over $5 billion, in addition to the wealth of the entire North Korean state.
3. Raúl Castro, the former President of Cuba, whose family is believed to control up to 60% of the Cuban economy through various state-owned enterprises.

And lets not forget Vladimir

World's Richest Politician Is Worth $200 Billion, Owns A $700 Million Jet

Despite officially claiming an annual salary of $140,000, Russian President Vladimir Putin's reported net worth and lifestyle tell a different tale.

www.ndtv.com

You might not have got the memo, but Russia isn't communist any more.

 

[Heyo]

We need a companion thread to the anti-capitalist one.

Every time socialism has been tried, eg, USSR, N Korea,
Khmer Rouge, China, the populace has been oppressed,
enslaved, purged, & starved. Despite this fervent fans
of socialism want yet again to put government in total
control of the means of production.

The problem isn't so much if something is left or right on the political compass, the problem is where to find an ideology on the vertical axis. Communism has the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in its ideology, so it is inherently authoritarian. Capitalism has no such ideology, but it tends to evolve into dictatorships of the corporations.
Socialism or capitalism, both need an uncorrupted democratic control.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Capitalism has no such ideology, but it tends to evolve into dictatorships of the corporations.

In what sense, though?

Socialism or capitalism, both need an uncorrupted democratic control.

And I think we pretty much have that in our western countries.
You can't operate a so-called sweatshop over here.
There's all kinds of laws and checks and balances that corporations must abide to... ranging from quality control all the way to worker rights.

If you are a food company, you are going to be subject to inspections and stuff to see if your food and means of production meets certain standards.
If you own a factory, you are going to be subject to inspections and stuff to see if you provide a healthy and safe work environment.
Your employees have all kinds of rights. There is minimum wage, limits on how much hours they can put in, etc etc.

The problem is that such doesn't exist in other countries, where you CAN operate sweat shops.
And yes, it's disgusting to see the working conditions in such. But, as I said in another thread, it's also what keeps prices from skyrocketing.
Even if you are a company that doesn't want to engage in such... you are pretty much going to be almost forced to do so in order to be able to compete.

People tend to not realize what it would do to price tags of goods if overnight all production etc will pull out of "low income" countries and moved to western countries with all those higher standards. Those higher standards are certainly a good thing. But it also comes with massive increase in cost. And that increase is going to be transferred straight into sale prices.

It's easy to complain about sweatshops etc. It's also very easy to blame it on "corporate greed".
But the alternative, off course, is that your personal budget will be cut in half. At least.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There is no shortage of cigarettes, yet they are very expensive because of the taxes imposed on them by the State.
Quite the contrary: there is a huge quantity of unsold tobacco.

In many countries cigarette smoking is very heavily controlled. This is only partially achieved by taxation but so by advertising bans. Bans on open display. And restricting sales on Yong people. And restricting places where people can smoke As a result government revenue from smoking has actually fallen.
Smoking is now seen as an unsocial activity by a large majority of people.

In the UK it is rare to see people smoking in public. Except in the few set aside places for it. Most people do not allow smoking in their homes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Bankers don't produce anything either.

They produce money for those in need.
They pay interest to those storing money.
Services are are part of the means of production.
Note also that an engineer produces only thoughts.
Yet we're part of it too.
Be smarter....less contrary.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you see the contradiction?

Do you believe there is one?

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem isn't so much if something is left or right on the political compass, the problem is where to find an ideology on the vertical axis. Communism has the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in its ideology, so it is inherently authoritarian. Capitalism has no such ideology, but it tends to evolve into dictatorships of the corporations.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with many western countries,
eg, Canuckistan, USA, Norway, Switzerland. They're
capitalist, & not a dictatorship.

Socialism or capitalism, both need an uncorrupted democratic control.

Wow!
You've been listening to me!
It finally sunk in!

 

[Estro Felino]

They produce money for those in need.
They pay interest to those storing money.
Services are are part of the means of production.
Note also that an engineer produces only thoughts.
Yet we're part of it too.
Be smarter....less contrary.

Their employees produce services.
Bankers phagocytize profits like voracious anacondas.

 

[Revoltingest]

Their employees produce services.

That's how capitalism often works.
Hire workers....the drones who do the
bidding of managers / owners.
Efficient, ain't it!

Bankers phagocytize profits like voracious anacondas.

We're just trading facts now?
OK....
Socialist suck ***** like voracious Nazis.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with many western countries,
eg, Canuckistan, USA, Norway, Switzerland. They're
capitalist, & not a dictatorship.

Wow!
You've been listening to me!
It finally sunk in!

Norway a monarchy, incorporates a high degree of democratic socialist ideas in the way the country is run and how it supports it's people .
And though it's tax burden is extremely high as is it's cost of living. The standard of living amongst its people is among the highest in the world.
It is also among the least religious, though it gives strong support to its churches
It invests the majority of its oil surplus into the nations pension fund for future generations. It also supports other countries green energy projects from its oil revenue.

 

[Revoltingest]

Norway a monarchy, incorporates a high degree of democratic socialist ideas in the way the country is run and how it supports it's people .
And though it's tax burden is extremely high as is it's cost of living. The standard of living amongst its people is among the highest in the world.
It is also among the least religious, though it gives strong support to its churches
It invests the majority of its oil surplus into the nations pension fund for future generations. It also supports other countries green energy projects from its oil revenue.

Less religion = Good