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Some things I am noticing

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
And autism is a mental disorder
But it is normal. And it's a development disorder, much like ADHD.
Does it include transgender, I don't know because that has became political and political correctness is at play there.
You don't know because you've made it clear you haven't researched it much. And, no, being transgender is no more a mental illness than being ginger or left handed.
Political correctness, avoidance, offensiveness, acceptance, etc makes it hard to talk about many of these things.
Only if you let them, and rarely in real life.
I'm not offended and accept people who are transgender however it seems to offend them when I say I don't agree. Imagine that.
It's understandable we'd be upset when you suggest we follow science unless we don't agree with it, with that disagreement--you believe and per your own thread--is sex chromosome pairing. But you yourself did not get that right and revealed much ignorance in that area as well.
Also I am a born living male. I don't need a label of cismale.
The cis prefix is used to clarify that those being referenced aren't trans. It's nothing to huff up a rant over.
When people/conditions strayed from male/female, it all got labeled. So it seems in turn everyone should have a/be labeled to make it fair/politically correct. I have a lable, its male,, No prefix needed.
We've always labeled everything and human cultures have always had those outside of the strict male/female binary. So much so that the "male/female binary" doesn't even exist in many cultures because they have more than male and female as far as gender and social norms and roles and labels go.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
But it is normal. And it's a development disorder, much like ADHD.

You don't know because you've made it clear you haven't researched it much. And, no, being transgender is no more a mental illness than being ginger or left handed.

Only if you let them, and rarely in real life.

It's understandable we'd be upset when you suggest we follow science unless we don't agree with it, with that disagreement--you believe and per your own thread--is sex chromosome pairing. But you yourself did not get that right and revealed much ignorance in that area as well.

The cis prefix is used to clarify that those being referenced aren't trans. It's nothing to huff up a rant over.

We've always labeled everything and human cultures have always had those outside of the strict male/female binary. So much so that the "male/female binary" doesn't even exist in many cultures because they have more than male and female as far as gender and social norms and roles and labels go.

"The cis prefix is used to clarify that those being referenced aren't trans. It's nothing to huff up a rant over."

Transmale, male. No cis prefix needed
Transfemale, female. No cis prefix needed.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
"The cis prefix is used to clarify that those being referenced aren't trans. It's nothing to huff up a rant over."

Transmale, male. No cis prefix needed
Transfemale, female. No cis prefix needed.
Except clarity is a good thing in communication.
Truthfully, if you're ranting about the cis prefix you may have somehow put yourself into a position that has it coming up more frequently in your life than it does in mine. I rarely see it, I rarely hear it, I rarely use it. It's so far back in my head that RF is where it mostly and predominantly comes up in my personal life.
So I have to wonder, how is it that this has become prevalent enough in your life that you're ranting about it?
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Nope. Red heads are 1-2%

Red hair, occurring in 1 to 2%
Which is still roughly under the amount you’d see of intersex conditions. I think that’s at 3%
(It’s been a while since high school biology so forgive me if I’m incorrect.)
And please note that intersex conditions are often considered an underreported phenomenon.
So it might even be more
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
See here...


Up until 2019 the WHO classified transgender people with a mental disorder.

WHO Drops Being Transgender from List of Mental Disorders | Time



Also have you ever heard of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM-5)

What is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM-5) used for?
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. DSM contains descriptions, symptoms and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders.

What book provides for one overarching diagnosis of gender dysphoria with separate specific criteria for children and for adolescents and adults? The DSM-5

Psychiatry.org - What is Gender Dysphoria?.
Yeah so?
Defitinitions in science changes based on new information gathered. You could scour the literature and find all sorts of disorders that were reversed. So what? That’s the so called self correcting mechanism of science. What was once a disorder is no longer due to more nuanced information gathered. That’s just how science works in general.
I’m not too versed on the latest literature concerning trans individuals.
I’ll freely admit that.
But it is seemingly a phenomenon that occurs within our species all the same.
So what?
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Oh maybe because its not about thinking, choice or want, its how they were born.

To you it's about how they were born, and apparently you only mean physically. That doesn't matter to me if I'm not physically involved with the person. It seems to vex you. That's what this thread means to me. Why else would you have started it but to express disapproval of boys not being boys and girls not being girls? You also wrote, "telling me I have to accept what you feel or believe bothers me." This tells me the same thing.

You're not alone in your cognitive dissonance there.

But I believe that you have a duty to be a better man and honor the Golden Rule. Treat others as they'd like to be treated just as you want to be treated as a cis-male, because that's how you feel. Me, too. But what if you were born in a female body and felt exactly the same way - you want to be thought of and treated as a man? If you know how you like to be treated, you know how to treat others that want the same thing.

Ask yourself why it is so difficult for you to do that. Don't you do that with the deformed? They don't want to be gawked at or patronized, and hopefully, when you encounter them, you do neither of those things, even though their appearance might make you want to do both of them. Why? Because you're kind. Because you just don't want to hurt this person. You want to be supportive and enabling if you can. You conceal your natural reaction of aversion. What is the reason to treat the transgendered and gender dysphoric worse than that?

As a mod you should set an example instead of antagonizing

I thought @ADigitalArtist did set a good example. You didn't like her posting behavior, but I don't believe that it was because she was out of line. You don't like to be thought of as transphobic. And it seems you think that you aren't, probably because you don't feel antipathy for such people.

But that's not the limit of the definition. What you're doing on this thread is expressing your discomfort and disapproval, which is also a manifestation of a kind of bigotry.

I doubt that you like that word, either, but what else does one call the irrational and harmful marginalization and demonization of a class of law abiding people? It's the soft or cold form of bigotry, the one without apparent hatred, but still sees that other class as somehow less human.

Think of the parents who sincerely believe their daughter intellectually inferior because she is female, and in an effort to help her, steers her away from university, where she is bound to be overwhelmed, toward something they feel is more appropriate for her limited ability, like becoming a housewife. There's no malice there, but it is bigotry nevertheless by the definition I just provided.

Being left handed is inherently sinister.

And gauche.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
See here...


Up until 2019 the WHO classified transgender people with a mental disorder.

WHO Drops Being Transgender from List of Mental Disorders | Time



Also have you ever heard of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM-5)

What is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM-5) used for?
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. DSM contains descriptions, symptoms and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders.

What book provides for one overarching diagnosis of gender dysphoria with separate specific criteria for children and for adolescents and adults? The DSM-5

Psychiatry.org - What is Gender Dysphoria?.
So? Homosexuality was considered one until clinicians gave a resounding "no" and had it removed from the DSM.
And guess what else? Science changes. When I was in elementary school we had three states of matter, nine planets, and I was diagnosed with a stomach ulcer due to stress. But today we have added plasma as a state of matter, we have learned there are many Pluto-like objects in the outer solar system, and we have learned stomach ulcers are caused by bacteria rather than stress. And then my AP-biology class in high school didn't mention mRNA because that wasn't discovered until after and I learned about it in college.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
So? Homosexuality was considered one until clinicians gave a resounding "no" and had it removed from the DSM.
And guess what else? Science changes. When I was in elementary school we had three states of matter, nine planets, and I was diagnosed with a stomach ulcer due to stress. But today we have added plasma as a state of matter, we have learned there are many Pluto-like objects in the outer solar system, and we have learned stomach ulcers are caused by bacteria rather than stress. And then my AP-biology class in high school didn't mention mRNA because that wasn't discovered until after and I learned about it in college.
I remember being in school when there was this big debate over the classification of birds as a subspecies of dinosaur (theropod.)
I think they had settled on the “reclassification” rather recently.

I think such info largely made the once groundbreaking BBC faux documentary Walking with Dinosaurs obsolete. Science wise anyway. Which vexed my poor science teacher at the time something fierce, since she had proudly used it in class as an illustration of, well, dinosaurs.
(Still an epic show though.)

Science updates itself constantly. What my parents learned is primitive compared to my own studies. And they went to far better schools than I did. The same can be said of my own nephews and nieces. No doubt they will get a better science education than I received. If one is basing such a judgement upon how much nuanced information is on offer
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I remember being in school when there was this big debate over the classification of birds as a subspecies of dinosaur (theropod.)
I think they had settled on the “reclassification” rather recently.

I think such info largely made the once groundbreaking BBC faux documentary Walking with Dinosaurs obsolete. Science wise anyway. Which vexed my poor science teacher at the time something fierce, since she had proudly used it in class as an illustration of, well, dinosaurs.
(Still an epic show though.)
Look at the first Jurrasic Park movie. It was scientifically accurate to our best knowledge at the time but now we know it's pretty far off.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
You're dancing around the question and it's not fooling anyone.

Do we agree that being transgender is not a mental illness, yes or no?

I am not qualified to say whether it is or isn't.

All I can give you again is what I posted in post #148.

1. I have said I don't think its normal
2. I never said it was a mental disorder
3. I said a mental disorder book is what is use to diagnose and treat it and even provided the link.
 
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