Spirit vs. Soul

[zenzero]

Friends ben and Runewolf,

Agree and do practise no-path but still am a practitioner since am still in a state of 'being' and not yet gate, gate.......meaning there is a form of practise or way towards even being to being no more. when one has transcended every form of being.
Personally that is what dharma is all about, being on the path [even no-path]

Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Friends ben and Runewolf,

Agree and do practise no-path but still am a practitioner since am still in a state of 'being' and not yet gate, gate.......meaning there is a form of practise or way towards even being to being no more. when one has transcended every form of being.
Personally that is what dharma is all about, being on the path [even no-path]

Love & rgds

Yes zenzero, it is that final 'gate' event that makes permanent the oneness state of being that previously had been just an intermittent experience.....after which there will be no more posting on RE Forums discussing enlightenment...

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes we are THAT true but we cannot claim so as the claim is from the ego-mind.

It is a matter of fact statement. I see no reason why it cannot be stated. Why should we take it as a statement from ego-mind?

Not a THING which one can walk towards, nor is there a path towards such a THING.

Yes, we cannot walk towards it, because we ourselves are it. What path? To where?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Aupmanyav,

Why should we take it as a statement from ego-mind?

cause this 'I' [mind] is still there and total no-mind is to be transcended as BEing on the path the journey is ongoing.

meaning even a trace of thought means to be in the mind and that mind is also labelled as ego-mind.

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

it is that final 'gate' event that makes permanent the oneness state of being

Till such times each of us is on a path be it pathless path but still a path or else we will [in most probability] not discussing this on RF.

Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Aupmanyav, there are many dark forces at work in the Cosmos...like the ying doing battle with the yang in the eternal play of the harmonious quiescent Tao.....or the God of Abrahamic religions who is responsible for creating the good and the evil to balance creation....and so every aspirant should know that the path to the 'pathless land' is a difficult one. The most common trap for aspirants is falling for the illusion of having 'arrived' prior to actual arrival. To make a mortal mind think that they are enlightened or somesuch is childsplay for the dark side...and much easier than doing real battle with the light of a more advanced disciple.

Personally thought that I had 'arrived' 35 years ago...wow..what a rough ride it has been since then...and now understand that ego/I will never arrive...but the self awareness of my existence will, at the final 'gate', be reintegrated with the oneness and thus realize immortality. Not that the ego was ever separated from the oneness, just that the ego perceived reality as if it were separated and nothing that is separate from the oneness can enter into the oneness because nothing is separate from the oneness....that's why this world is called maya...

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

Just a suitable passage from Osho, in response:

The moment is total: the moment of dropping the ego - the moment of ego elimination, the moment of egolessness - is total; it is complete. As far as you are concerned, it is perfect. But as far as the ocean is concerned, as far as the divine is concerned, it is just a beginning, and there will be no end to it.

One thing to remember: ignorance has no beginning, but it has an end. You cannot know from what point your ignorance begins; you always find it there; you are always in the midst of it. You never know the beginning: there is no beginning.

Ignorance has no beginning, but it ends. Enlightenment has a beginning, but it never ends. And both of these become one; they both are one. The beginning of enlightenment and the end of ignorance is a single point. It is one point, a dangerous point with two faces: one face looking toward beginningless ignorance and the other face looking at the beginning of endless enlightenment.

Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Friend ben,

Just a suitable passage from Osho, in response:


Love & rgds

Thanks dear zenzero...awesome piece from Osho...:namaste

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

Many days have to face that point where the mind wishes to fall back to its ignorant ways but consciousness points the other.
Yes am a witness to days where ignorance wins and days when consciousness wins of course knowing finally ignorance has to give ways on day even if through evolution.

Love & rgds

 

[Aupmanyav]

cause this 'I' [mind] is still there and total no-mind is to be transcended as BEing on the path the journey is ongoing.

The 'I' has to be removed from mind by 'viveka', discretion. It is possible. Let the 'I' remain, don't let it interfere.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Aupmanyav,

The 'I' has to be removed from mind by 'viveka', discretion. It is possible. Let the 'I' remain, don't let it interfere.

each path/ways/religion is only to remove the I"; through 'vivek' is just one. Since it is possible and thousands have done so is not any question/issue.
Yes since your 2nd part of the sentence

Let the 'I' remain, don't let it interfere.

needs clarification and possibly if you can quote any scripture towards it could be useful towards better understanding.

Love & rgds

 

[John Doe]

Friend Aupmanyav,



each path/ways/religion is only to remove the I"; through 'vivek' is just one. Since it is possible and thousands have done so is not any question/issue.
Yes since your 2nd part of the sentence needs clarification and possibly if you can quote any scripture towards it could be useful towards better understanding.

Love & rgds

The mahamudra view is that one is liberated when the nature of mind is perceived as the union of samsara and nirvana. This is 'the coemergent state of peace'.

POINTING-OUT INSTRUCTIONS

The instruction that transforms thougths of all three times at once
Is to look at appearance-emptiness, the display of present moment awareness.
By doing this, you will attain the coemergent state of peace.
You will progress through the paths and bhumis and gain the great-bliss awareness.

TheRoaringLion

Spoiler: mahamudra

All things in their nature are of the mind.
Being of the mind, there is nothing,
Not even the tiniest thing like an atom,
Or a mote of dust which is not of the same mind nature.
All is nakedly pure, unmade by the lower mind.
This realization is the state of illumination of the Buddhas of the Three Times...
Their symbolic "Buddha Palace of Light."
In their profundity or attainment-gambhria-
Is the Buddha being, the Fruit, the Real.
Remain within this profundity, undistracted.
No need to discipline body or voice,
All will come spontaneously.
There is nothing in THIS to realize:
Understand that whatever is apparent is without own-being.
All phenomena are egoless and
Dharmadhatu, the mind realm, is completely free of thought.
The great transcending knowledge beyond duality is the Holy Spirit
In which all is sameness.
As the Great River flows on whatever meditation sitting you do silently,
This then is always the Buddha's nature, enlightenment.
The world just isn't there,
And all is the great Bliss.
All dharmas and every single thing is void in essence,
And being void cannot be grasped by the mind,
So automatically we are cleansed of attachment.
Beyond intellect, within the mind nothing arises.
This is the path of all the Buddhas-enlightened ones.

-By Rungjung Rigpi Dorje, The 16th Gyalwa Karmapa

H.H. The 16th Gyalwa Karmapa

In relation to the cessation of thought, this line illuminates the view -

All dharmas and every single thing is void in essence,
And being void cannot be grasped by the mind,
So automatically we are cleansed of attachment.

This is also expressed in the Heart Sutra, which explains that all dharmas are emptiness. Every expression of "I", and every thought, is emptiness.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes since your 2nd part of the sentence needs clarification and possibly if you can quote any scripture towards it could be useful towards better understanding.

Compartmentalize. When one knows what 'I' can do, be vigilant against those things - attachment and emotions, kama, krodha, mada, lobha (anger, lust, anger, greed). Till we have this body, 'I' is going to remain. Presently cannot think of a scripture. Just common sense. Or perhaps

"Tri-vidham narakasyedam, dvāram nāshanam ātmanah;
kāmah krodhas tathā lobhas, tasmād etat trayam tyajet." BG 16.21

There are three gates leading to this hell — lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give up the three, for they lead to the degradation of self.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Aupmanyav,

What you state have all being understood and being processed since long.
Need views of experienced souls to validate.
Sense is where mind comes in and not dependable!
Thanks for your efforts!

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend John Doe,

Thanks brother. However could you clarify the lines further for a better understanding:

The instruction that transforms thougths of all three times at once
Is to look at appearance-emptiness, the display of present moment awareness.
By doing this, you will attain the coemergent state of peace.
You will progress through the paths and bhumis and gain the great-bliss awareness.

Am not very clear what it means to say.
maybe already practising it but still clarity would certainly help.

Love & rgds

 

[Aupmanyav]

If that is important, see my edit in the the previous post. Handling 'I' is most important.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Aupmanyav,

Handling 'I' is most important.

Yes how are you doing it?
not clear yet!

Love & rgds

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh, no. I settled it long back.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Aupmanyav,

You missed the point.
Had enquired as to how you are handling your 'I'
as your path is not evidently clear, to me yet.

Love & rgds

 

[Runewolf1973]

I am no Buddhist, nor am I Hindu. In fact I know quite literally next to nothing about Hinduism or Buddhism. As an animist, I came to my own understanding of how the universe works and the nature of it all. It seems to me that the older a belief or spiritual path is, the more natural it is and therefore the more true to reality it is. This is why I can relate so much with Buddhism or Hinduism. They are very old systems and they share that same deep connection with nature. If one could look back far enough in time, they would see that there was no "spiritual path", it was simply a way of life, a sense or understanding of how nature worked. That is why I prefer animism over anything else. It is the oldest "way"...that existed before any other paths or religions or spiritual beliefs existed.