Spiritualism vs. Materialism

[Willamena]

It really doesn't make a difference whether a physical process generates consciousness. The question is whether consciousness is physical or not. If it is not, then materialism is not true.

Consciousness is not measurable, and so not physical. This in no way means that materialism is true.

 

[Bunyip]

What is the difference between a philosophical view and a worldview?

The difference between a philosophical approach like materialism and a worldview is that a worldview is the way one sees and interprets the world, whilst a philosophical position is rather like a set of lenses - you select one and examine the world through it. It is not something one adopts permanently or has a belief in.

 

[Willamena]

The difference between a philosophical approach like materialism and a worldview is that a worldview is the way one sees and interprets the world, whilst a philosophical position is rather like a set of lenses - you select one and examine the world through it. It is not something one adopts permanently or has a belief in.

If a person sees the world through a filter of materialism, surely that impacts their worldview? They will see and interpret the world that way.

 

[Bunyip]

Bingo. That's what I am saying too. But aborigines and George-ananda do believe spirits exist independent of anyone having a concept of them.

That is false George.

They are more than concepts.

No, that is also false. They are concepts. To the Australian aboriginals the spirit world is accessed whenever you dream - dreams are conceptual abstract George. They do not believe that the dreaming has a material existence outside of the dream.

We believe there are other realms (not made of physical matter) that independently exist.

Yes and strangely assume so does everyone else.

I personally believe these realms to be above our vibratory levels and in dimensions beyond our familiar three (4th?, 5th?, etc.).

Yeah mate, you believe all sorts of things.

 

[Bunyip]

If a person sees the world through a filter of materialism, surely that impacts their worldview? They will see and interpret the world that way.

Only whilst they are looking through that particular lens. But sure, considering different philosophical positions can impact a persons worldview.

 

[Willamena]

Only whilst they are looking through that particular lens.

Well, of course.

But sure, considering different philosophical positions can impact a persons worldview.

Or having different philosophical positions.

It seems to me you are trying to distance a person from philosophy, but philosophy is there for the person. Philosophy is the study of us.

 

[Willamena]

And, yes, some people are materialist in practice, meaning the way they think.

 

[Bunyip]

Well, of course.

Or having different philosophical positions.

It seems to me you are trying to distance a person from philosophy, but philosophy is there for the person. Philosophy is the study of us.

Well yes. There is a distinction between philosophical approaches we may consider and who we are. So yes, I am establishing that distance because these philosophical approaches are not useful as labels to identify and classify people as some here are doing.

 

[Willamena]

Well yes. There is a distinction between philosophical approaches we may consider and who we are. So yes, I am establishing that distance because these philosophical approaches are not useful as labels to identify and classify people as some here are doing.

But what of the philosophical positions that we have (as opposed to considering those we don't have)?

 

[Bunyip]

But what of the philosophical positions that we have (as opposed to considering those we don't have)?

What of them?

 

[Willamena]

What of them?

They cannot be distanced. They are a part of what we are.

 

[Bunyip]

They cannot be distanced. They are a part of what we are.

Not in my case.

 

[Willamena]

Not in my case.

That's denial.

 

[Bunyip]

That's denial.

Of what?

 

[Gambit]

The difference between a philosophical approach like materialism and a worldview is that a worldview is the way one sees and interprets the world, whilst a philosophical position is rather like a set of lenses - you select one and examine the world through it. It is not something one adopts permanently or has a belief in.

A metaphysical position (like materialism) is a worldview.

 

[Bunyip]

A metaphysical position (like materialism) is a worldview.

Not in my case, or for that matter for most people. But sure, if it works that way for you, then great.

 

[Gambit]

I think that you and George are making a very significant mistake in seeing materialism as some kind of worldview or belief. It isn't. Nobody is really a materialist in practice, or an idealist a spiritualist etc. These are just philosophical positions - ways to look at the world. I am not any kind of materialist really - it's just a philosophical approach, not a label you can attach to people.

A worldview is a "way to look at the world." Duh!

 

[Bunyip]

A worldview is a "way to look at the world." Duh!

Yes, a wordview is a way to look, at the world. A philosophical approach is more temporary, it is just a lens to look through. A person can consider any philosophical approach without it affecting their worldview.

 

[Gambit]

That makes no sense whatsoever - you keep insulting people's intelligence, but follow with such illogical leaps. Consciousness is CONCEPTUAL within materialism, and thus not physical without that presenting any kind of conflict with materialism. CONCEPTS are non physical and exist within materialism. Concepts are by definition non physical, they are abstracts.

If consciousness is not physical (which you have freely acknowledged), then materialism is false. It's that simple.

 

[Bunyip]

If consciousness is not physical (which you have freely acknowledged), then materialism is false. It's that simple.

Not that you have given a rationale for that conclusion. Materialism accepts the existence of the non -physical, cpncepts for example. The existence of concepts as nonphysical abstracts does not conflict with materialism - why would it?

This is the point you have never been able to answer to.