Spontaneous Abortions: Murder?

[yippityyak]

I was reading a book recently that touched on this subject.

God forbids murder in the Ten Commandments. Would abortion not be murder?

Personally I think it is, but that is just my opinion. What about spontaneous abortions? These are not planned by any human, but by God. Is he not murdering those little babies, as it is the same thing?

And why does it happen? What is God doing? Why is he doing it? Or is it not part of his plan?

 

[Kungfuzed]

I was reading a book recently that touched on this subject.

God forbids murder in the Ten Commandments. Would abortion not be murder?

If you believe you are killing a parasitic cluster of cells, then no. If you believe you are killing another human being then yes. Murder has alot to do with intent.

Personally I think it is, but that is just my opinion. What about spontaneous abortions? These are not planned by any human, but by God. Is he not murdering those little babies, as it is the same thing?

I think you're confusing miscarriage with abortion. The result it the same for the fetus but one will gain you great sympathy while the other will make people judge you.

And why does it happen? What is God doing? Why is he doing it? Or is it not part of his plan?

Why do pregnancies get miscarried? There are many causes for it. Have you ever heard a doctor say that God killed the baby? What makes you think He has anything to do with it?

 

[yippityyak]

Ok, I totally agree with you on that. And this is what I am trying to establish here, is how other people view it.

I dont believe that God has this divine plan for your life and that everything happens according to that plan. I want to know what other people have to say about it. I want to hear other peoples arguments on Gods divine plan and how these sort of things have happened for what reason or purpose!

Basically I guess I am posing the question to Christians and the like who believe that everything that happens is according to Gods plan.

Thanks for your view point, that is the point of this thread! x

 

[Sunstone]

Very interesting thread, Yippityyak! I agree the reality of spontaneous abortions surely needs to be addressed by those who believe God has a plan for everyone's life.

BTW, humans are the only organisms that have spontaneous abortions. Even apple trees, for instance, drop green fruit off their branches; fruit that for one reason or another the tree does not "want" to invest more resources and energy in ripenning to term. Nature does a lot of prunning when it comes to which offspring an organism will bring to term or not.

 

[yippityyak]

Well, that is what I am looking for. I want to know what everyone else thinks. Things from the souls of those "cells", to their thoughts on abortion as a form of contraception.

Thank you Sunstone!

 

[Sunstone]

From what I've read, doctors estimate that as many as 12% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions. Most of those occur so early in the cycle that the woman might not notice anything more than an unusually heavy period. But if one believes that we have a soul from the moment of conception, than that's quite a few souls that don't make it to birth. How can that be God's plan?

 

[yippityyak]

Exactly! I can understand a fully formed baby even as early as three months, maybe less. But can a clump of cells have a soul? Surely not?

Even the argument of the spontaneous abortion or miscarriage is part of the "mothers" plan, what explanation is there for the pregnancies that they dont notice?

And what about Eptopic pregnancies? That is like a "freak accident"! No one means for that to happen either, and yet there is no other option but to terminate the pregnancy.

And I agree that there would be a lot of lost little souls out there from all these spontaneous abortions!

Sunstone, have you by any chance read "A Letter to a Christian Nation"? Just curious?

 

[Sunstone]

I've heard about A Letter To A Christian Nation, but I've not read it yet. Is it good?

 

[yippityyak]

It is very good! And it addresses problems like these.

I cant say that i agree with everything that he says, but it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Kungfuzed]

Is the term spontaneous abortion something that is commonly used in place of miscarriage? When I hear spontaneous abortion I think of a pregnant woman driving along passing by the clinic and saying to herself "I feel like having an abortion today!".

 

[yippityyak]

:biglaugh:

Is the term spontaneous abortion something that is commonly used in place of miscarriage? When I hear spontaneous abortion I think of a pregnant woman driving along passing by the clinic and saying to herself "I feel like having an abortion today!".

:biglaugh:That is not very funny! :biglaugh:

 

[SoyLeche]

Personally I think it is, but that is just my opinion. What about spontaneous abortions? These are not planned by any human, but by God. Is he not murdering those little babies, as it is the same thing?

This won't really add to the conversation, but it's a little pet peeve of mine:

Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of one human by another human.

So, in order for God to murder anyone, the killing has to be unlawful (and since God makes the laws, I think it would be pretty hard for him to break any) and God would have to be a human.

In essence - the term "murder" cannont be used to describe any killing that God may or may not have caused.

That's all

 

[yippityyak]

What? Did I read that correctly?
So lets say, for instance, George Bush was given the power to make any law he wanted and before the law of murder existed, he decided to invent it. Then he goes out and kills someone on the side of the street for no reason whatsoever. Your post above tells me that he is now not liable for that crime because he created the law? I am sorry, but I somehow dont think it works like that.

And yes, you might say that God is all-powerful and all the rest, but murder is murder. And you may bring up the question of God not being human, but in the Bible he tells us that he once was a human, that he walked among us and dealt with the same temptations that we did. He may have had a really strong will at not giving in to those temptations, but if you argue that it makes him less or more of a human, then it does not justify a christians views on Jesus and why he was put on this earth in the first place.

Then again, it is just my opinion.

 

[SoyLeche]

What? Did I read that correctly?
So lets say, for instance, George Bush was given the power to make any law he wanted and before the law of murder existed, he decided to invent it. Then he goes out and kills someone on the side of the street for no reason whatsoever. Your post above tells me that he is now not liable for that crime because he created the law? I am sorry, but I somehow dont think it works like that.

And yes, you might say that God is all-powerful and all the rest, but murder is murder. And you may bring up the question of God not being human, but in the Bible he tells us that he once was a human, that he walked among us and dealt with the same temptations that we did. He may have had a really strong will at not giving in to those temptations, but if you argue that it makes him less or more of a human, then it does not justify a christians views on Jesus and why he was put on this earth in the first place.

Then again, it is just my opinion.

George Bush doesn't have the same level of Sovereinty that God has.

 

[porkchop]

I was reading a book recently that touched on this subject.

God forbids murder in the Ten Commandments. Would abortion not be murder?

Personally I think it is, but that is just my opinion. What about spontaneous abortions? These are not planned by any human, but by God. Is he not murdering those little babies, as it is the same thing?

And why does it happen? What is God doing? Why is he doing it? Or is it not part of his plan?

Abortion is murder, plain and simple.

I believe that when women miscarry, its because the body has either rejected it because its not ready yet (particularly in cases of very young girls getting pregnant) or that God knows there will be problems, could lead to death maybe, and intervines. I mainly say it wasnt ment to be. Some things we just aint ment to understand, but at least all these babys get to be with Jesus. Brings some comfort.

 

[jewscout]

i do not define abortion as murder, nor do i think the Torah defines it as such

 

[Kungfuzed]

If you look into the medical reasons as to why women miscarry, you won't find God anywhere in the list.

 

[dawny0826]

I was reading a book recently that touched on this subject.

God forbids murder in the Ten Commandments. Would abortion not be murder?

Personally I think it is, but that is just my opinion. What about spontaneous abortions? These are not planned by any human, but by God. Is he not murdering those little babies, as it is the same thing?

And why does it happen? What is God doing? Why is he doing it? Or is it not part of his plan?

Considering the fact that life is God's to give and God's to give away, NO, I do not think that misacarriages qualify as murder.

I do however, believe that that the ELECTIVE, non-therapeutic abortion DOES qualify as murder.

 

[Ronald]

It seems as if everyone is omitting the thing called premature birth. Is this not in the same term as spontanous abortion? Until just a few years ago, premature births did not survive. Is this God murder or is it just as the apple tree aborts for one reason or the other some of it's little apples?
Contrary to the Christian view, life doesn't begin until the born fetus/baby takes it's first breath. Just as God breathed into Adam the ruach/breath of life and he became a soul/breathing creature.
Don't take me as being for abortion as a form of birth control, I am not!
Only that I differ from the "pro-lifers" in that life begins at conception. You shouldn't count your chickens until the eggs have hatched. You can't make apple pie from shed apples. A soul isn't, until it is complete, a body that breathes = a soul. A body absent the breath of life is just a body.

Another difference I have with the "pro-lifers" is that I do not see the the passing of laws that make criminals of people who do not share their "Religious beliefs".
Most of them believe that God's laws are too grievous to be kept, yet they like the Pharissees bind others to burdens they themselves will not budge.

You can't stop the venom of a Rattlesnake by cutting off his rattles!

Abortion is caused by too many irresponsible people having irresponsible sex!
Stop that and you will stop abortion.

 

[Quiddity]

This won't really add to the conversation, but it's a little pet peeve of mine:

Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of one human by another human.

So, in order for God to murder anyone, the killing has to be unlawful (and since God makes the laws, I think it would be pretty hard for him to break any) and God would have to be a human.

In essence - the term "murder" cannont be used to describe any killing that God may or may not have caused.

That's all

Hip hip....I concur...