Stop and Frisk

[suncowiam]

Relax. Trump only meant in poor black neighbourhoods.

LOL

 

[Perditus]

Stop and frisk is used in all neighborhoods. The reason more blacks end up busted is because they like to carry unregistered, therefore, illegal firearms. They also tend to refuse to cooperate with LE, which exacerbates the situation.

 

[Quetzal]

Stop and frisk is used in all neighborhoods. The reason more blacks end up busted is because they like to carry unregistered, therefore, illegal firearms. They also tend to refuse to cooperate with LE, which exacerbates the situation.

So it's a race thing?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm worried that police have far too much on their plates as it is and this could easily erode existing community outreach efforts. Plus, if you are not committing a crime isn't it against your civil liberties? If you are doing something suspicious, by all means, investigate, but if you are simply hanging around or going hither and yon.... eeeeek.

I'm against stop and frisk for that very reason. Having law enforcement come up to somebody for no real reason and get patted down at random should set off alarm bells that something is going seriously wrong.

 

[Neo Deist]

Now let's get a LEO's actual perspective on this...

Stop & Frisk is a useful tool, but it has its place. Do we S&F every single person that we come across? No, of course not. If you work for a large city, chances are you are too damn busy to be doing all that. You jump from call to call.

S&F is best used in neighborhoods that are classified as high crime. Unfortunately, that means inner city Section 8 housing areas with unemployed poor people. However, those same people are the ones that are breaking into cars/houses/businesses, robbing people, and dealing drugs in that area. S&F has removed countless illegal guns and drugs off the streets, as well as led to the arrest of many fugitives.

If you wear a suit and tie and drive a Honda Accord, chances are you will never be hit with the S&F. But if you wear your pants around your knees with a big, gold, marijuana leaf necklace around your neck, sunglasses at night, have fake gold teeth and drive a Crown Vic with 22s, while blasting NWA's "Cop Killer," yeah, expect to be stopped...especially if the cops know who you are and that your record is a mile long. If the shoe fits...

Each state is different with regard to concealed carry laws. I can only tell you the law in Alabama.

 

[Neo Deist]

So it's a race thing?

Blacks make up ~13% of the US population. Once you factor out most black women and children under the age of 15, you are left with around 5%. That same 5% commits HALF the murders in the US every single year.

Yes, it is a race thing.

 

[Quetzal]

Blacks make up ~13% of the US population. Once you factor out most black women and children under the age of 15, you are left with around 5%. That same 5% commits HALF the murders in the US every single year.

Yes, it is a race thing.

I think it is much more complicated than that.

 

[Neo Deist]

I think it is much more complicated than that.

Not really. It is not a racist thing either. It is a realist thing. Speaking from experience, when you deal with that 5%, there is a VERY good chance that they either have warrants or they have something illegal on them (drugs, guns, etc.). When you see the same outcome hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year...you get to the point that you EXPECT them to have something and it surprises the hell out of you when they don't.

The real question is...why can't that 5% just obey the law like everyone else?

 

[Perditus]

So it's a race thing?

It's a cooperation and following the law thing.

 

[Quetzal]

Not really. It is not a racist thing either. It is a realist thing.

Your opinion is commonly held by most folks who aren't black and are a member of the lower middle class and up. I believe the problem is rooted in socio economic factors more than race factors alone. Let's take a look:

According to the census in 2015 the household median income for a white family is 62,000 while a black family it is 36k. 42% less. FORTY TWO PERCENT. That is HUGE. Now this is not to excuse criminal activity but it cannot be ignored from the discussion. Why do you think this is? Is it that white people are smarter? Work harder? No way. To over simplify it, it is due to the system around the black community being broken. They are playing a game of cards against a stacked deck and we are continuously surprised when they lose the hand.

 

[Wirey]

Now let's get a LEO's actual perspective on this...

If the shoe fits...

This is exactly why it's wrong.

 

[Underhill]

Blacks make up ~13% of the US population. Once you factor out most black women and children under the age of 15, you are left with around 5%. That same 5% commits HALF the murders in the US every single year.

Yes, it is a race thing.

In my county whites commit 95% of the crime. 3 meth labs busted in the last year and all of them run by white trash.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is exactly why it's wrong.

Nah...
Stop & frisk might actually be a good idea....if (& only if) it's practiced by intelligent, well trained, exemplary cops.
But the best reason why it's wrong is.....

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly ...

 

[esmith]

So, I guess the question is how do you stop the massive killings in Chicago?
Anyone have any "real" ideas?

 

[metis]

Stop & frisk has been declared unconstitutional if done without "probable cause", plus in action it has often been accompanied by racial profiling, such as a study done on NYPD's previous tactics indicated. Racial profiling violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

 

[Revoltingest]

So, I guess the question is how do you stop the massive killings in Chicago?
Anyone have any "real" ideas?

I don't think there is any definable measure which will stop the carnage.
The only legal & practical approach I see is gradual cultural change.
But I've no idea how to convert thugs & tolerance of them into model citizens.

 

[Revoltingest]

Stop & frisk has been declared unconstitutional if done without "probable cause", plus in action it has often been accompanied by racial profiling, such as a study done on NYPD's previous tactics indicated. Racial profiling violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

To avoid the 14th Amendment problem, all cops would need to do is start oppressing all races equally.
So that is a silly argument.
The 4th Amendment is the stronger protection against governmental thuggery.

 

[Wirey]

So, I guess the question is how do you stop the massive killings in Chicago?
Anyone have any "real" ideas?

Stop glorifying guns as a problem solving tool jumps to mind, but that ain't happening any time soon is Shoot Out Land. So I guess you're either going to have to surrender your civil liberties or get used to having people massacre school children.

 

[Quetzal]

So, I guess the question is how do you stop the massive killings in Chicago?
Anyone have any "real" ideas?

It isn't that simple. There is no silver bullet and a long term solution requires long term implementation.

 

[Quetzal]

Stop glorifying guns as a problem solving tool jumps to mind, but that ain't happening any time soon is Shoot Out Land. So I guess you're either going to have to surrender your civil liberties or get used to having people massacre school children.

But, if we do that, who will stand up to the suber ebil bad guys in the gov'ment?