Stratigraphy, radiometric evidence, fossil evidence, and genetics.

[dad]

This sums up your rejection of science based on a faith based scenario based on a literal interpretation of ancient scripture without provenance. By the way science does not prove anything, fortunately. Science falsifies theories and hypothesis based on objective verifiable evidence.

Yes, the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates there is only one way lamela can form based on direct observation. Simply if you can present a hypothesis based on your scenario that can be supported by science you would have an alternative way they could form. but so far you have only presented an unsupported bizarre assertion with no evidence.

Still waiting . . .

Sorry I thought you were capable of debating. Typical defeated religionists...denial. Failure to follow up. Baloney

 

[shunyadragon]

Sorry I thought you were capable of debating.

I don't believe you csincerely believed anything of the sort.

Typical defeated religionists...denial. Failure to follow up. Baloney

Yes, this is your modus operendi.

I am ofering my side with citations. you have failed to present anything of substance.

This sums up your rejection of science based on a faith based scenario based on a literal interpretation of ancient scripture without provenance. By the way science does not prove anything, fortunately. Science falsifies theories and hypothesis based on objective verifiable evidence.

Yes, the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates there is only one way lamela can form based on direct observation. Simply if you can present a hypothesis based on your scenario that can be supported by science you would have an alternative way they could form. but so far you have only presented an unsupported bizarre assertion with no evidence.

Still waiting . . .

 

[dad]

I don't believe you csincerely believed anything of the sort.




Yes, this is your modus operendi.

I am ofering my side with citations. you have failed to present anything of substance.

This sums up your rejection of science based on a faith based scenario based on a literal interpretation of ancient scripture without provenance. By the way science does not prove anything, fortunately. Science falsifies theories and hypothesis based on objective verifiable evidence.

Yes, the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates there is only one way lamela can form based on direct observation. Simply if you can present a hypothesis based on your scenario that can be supported by science you would have an alternative way they could form. but so far you have only presented an unsupported bizarre assertion with no evidence.

Still waiting . . .

You claimed 2 million years and would/could not support that.

Until you debate honestly ...cheers

 

[Subduction Zone]

You neither addressed the topic nor answered direct questions such as whether you believe God took eve from a bone of a man He created and formed? I know what spirit you have.

dad, one does not have to believe all of the myths of the Bible to be a Christian.

I know that this may shock you, but not all Christians believe that God lies.

 

[shunyadragon]

You claimed 2 million years and would/could not support that.

Until you debate honestly ...cheers

No problem with my honesty, but there is a problem where you failed in reading comprehension concerning my posts and the article cited. I described what the article described over ~480,000 lamela are uniform and accurately measured. There are over 1 million to 2 million lamela that are distorted and faulted by ancient earthquakes where older estimates can be made. Let's stick with the greater than ~480,000 annual lamela that are well documented as the article and I described specifically.

You have not offered any evidence to debate.

 

[tas8831]

I understand your frustration at being totally unable to defend your beliefs.

I understand the mental anguish one must live in when they have recognized that not only are they intellectually un-equipped to deal with science, but all science indicates that your precious ancient middle eastern beliefs are nonsense.

Poor fellow. Delusions can be very debilitating.

 

[dad]

I understand the mental anguish one must live in when they have recognized that not only are they intellectually un-equipped to deal with science, but all science indicates that your precious ancient middle eastern beliefs are nonsense.

Poor fellow. Delusions can be very debilitating.

Yet you post none. Guess who is delusional?

 

[dad]

No problem with my honesty, but there is a problem where you failed in reading comprehension concerning my posts and the article cited. I described what the article described over ~480,000 lamela are uniform and accurately measured. There are over 1 million to 2 million lamela that are distorted and faulted by ancient earthquakes where older estimates can be made. Let's stick with the greater than ~480,000 annual lamela that are well documented as the article and I described specifically.

You have not offered any evidence to debate.

So now it is 1 to 2 million!? Ha. Yet it is dated at 2 million years by your own article. How is that date gotten? What, some lamela are in a 2 year cycle? Radioactive dating? What? So what geologic layers do the layers span? Where is this distorted stuff found (Cambrian, Permian..etc)? Which part of the column is this (400, 440, or now 480) thousand uniform lamela found in?

 

[shunyadragon]

So now it is 1 to 2 million!? Ha. Yet it is dated at 2 million years by your own article. How is that date gotten? What, some lamela are in a 2 year cycle? Radioactive dating? What? So what geologic layers do the layers span? Where is this distorted stuff found (Cambrian, Permian..etc)? Which part of the column is this (400, 440, or now 480) thousand uniform lamela found in?

No, lameli are a one year weather cycle. Again, below the ~480,000 are estimates in different sources, because the lower lameli are distorted and faulted by earthquakes and therefore dating are estimates. These estimates are not dated with radiometric dating, which you would reject anyway. They are strictly dated by stratigraphy. Let us stick with the specifically and accurately counted lameli ~480,000 annual lameli accurately dated by counting the lameli.

The dating of these lameli sediments is at most 2.5 million years old. Do you understand the dating of the geologic periods and epochs. The Cambrian is ~500 to 579 millions of years ago, and ~245 to 290 million years ago. These sediment deposits are in the Quaternary form now to 1.5 million years ago. The older Lameli may be deposited in the Tertiary wich is from 1.5 million to ~56 million years ago. Are you confused or illiterate concerning the dating of the geologic time periods?

You still have not read the reference and apparently do not understand it. Apparently your reading comprehension is an issue here.

 

[dad]

No, lameli are a one year weather cycle. Again, below the ~480,000 are estimates in different sources, because the lower lameli are distorted and faulted by earthquakes and therefore dating are estimates. These estimates are not dated with radiometric dating, which you would reject anyway. They are strictly dated by stratigraphy. Let us stick with the specifically and accurately counted lameli ~480,000 annual lameli accurately dated by counting the lameli.

The dating of these lameli sediments is at most 2.5 million years old. Do you understand the dating of the geologic periods and epochs. The Cambrian is ~500 to 579 millions of years ago, and ~245 to 290 million years ago. These sediment deposits are in the Quaternary form now to 1.5 million years ago. The older Lameli may be deposited in the Tertiary wich is from 1.5 million to ~56 million years ago. Are you confused or illiterate concerning the dating of the geologic time periods?

You still have not read the reference and apparently do not understand it. Apparently your reading comprehension is an issue here.

Apparently you want to place the layers in the Quaternary strictly on the merits that there are 480,000 layers? Any evidence such as fossils that this is a proper classification?

What evidence do you have that the lower layers were formed in this nature? Surely you would not expect us just to believe they were for no reason?

 

[shunyadragon]

Apparently you want to place the layers in the Quaternary strictly on the merits that there are 480,000 layers? Any evidence such as fossils that this is a proper classification?

What evidence do you have that the lower layers were formed in this nature? Surely you would not expect us just to believe they were for no reason?

You have failed to read the research and references concerning the formation of annual lameli.

From: Lake stratification - Wikipedia

Lake stratification is the separation of lakes into three layers:

1. Epilimnion: the top of the lake.
2. Metalimnion (or thermocline): the middle layer, which may change depth throughout the day.
3. Hypolimnion: the bottom layer.

The thermal stratification of lakes refers to a change in the temperature at different depths in the lake, and is due to the change in water's density with temperature.[1] Cold water is denser than warm water and the epilimnion generally consists of water that is not as dense as the water in the hypolimnion.[2] However, the temperature of maximum density for freshwater is 4 °C. In temperate regions where lake water warms up and cools through the seasons, a cyclical pattern of overturn occurs that is repeated from year to year as the cold dense water at the top of the lake sinks. For example, in dimictic lakes the lake water turns over during the spring and the fall. This process occurs more slowly in deeper water and as a result, a thermal bar may form.[1] If the stratification of water lasts for extended periods, the lake is meromictic.

In shallow lakes, stratification into epilimnion, metalimnion, and hypolimnion often does not occur, as wind or cooling causes regular mixing throughout the year. These lakes are called polymictic. There is not a fixed depth that separates polymictic and stratifying lakes, as apart from depth, this is also influenced by turbidity, lake surface area, and climate.[3]

The lake mixing regime (e.g. polymictic, dimictic, meromictic)[4] describes the yearly patterns of lake stratification that occur during most of the years. However, short-term events can influence lake stratification as well. Heat waves can cause periods of stratification in otherwise mixed, shallow lakes,[5] while mixing events such as storms or large river discharge, can break down stratification.[6]

The accumulation of dissolved carbon dioxide in three meromictic lakes in Africa (Lake Nyos and Lake Monoun in Cameroon and Lake Kivuin Rwanda) is potentially dangerous because if one of these lakes is triggered into limnic eruption, a very large quantity of carbon dioxide can quickly leave the lake and displace the oxygen needed for life by people and animals in the surrounding area.

Natural resource and environmental managers are often challenged by problems caused by lake and pond thermal stratification.[2][7][8] Fish die-offs have been directly associated with thermal gradients, stagnation, and ice cover.[9] Excessive growth of plankton may limit the recreational use of lakes and the commercial use of lake water. With severe thermal stratification in a lake, the quality of drinking water also can be adversely affected.[2] For fisheriesmanagers, the spatial distribution of fish within a lake is often adversely affected by thermal stratification and in some cases may indirectly cause large die-offs of recreationally important fish.[9] One commonly used tool to reduce the severity of these lake management problems is to eliminate or lessen thermal stratification through aeration.[7] Many types of aeration equipment have been used to thermally destratify lakes. Aeration has met with some success, although it has rarely proved to be a panacea.[8]

Lake mixing regimes can shift in response to increasing air temperatures. Some dimictic lakes can turn into monomictic lakes, while some monomictic lakes might become meromictic, as a consequence of rising temperatures.[10]

 

[dad]

You have failed to read the research and references concerning the formation of annual lameli.

From: Lake stratification - Wikipedia

Lake stratification is the separation of lakes into three layers:

1. Epilimnion: the top of the lake.
2. Metalimnion (or thermocline): the middle layer, which may change depth throughout the day.
3. Hypolimnion: the bottom layer.

The thermal stratification of lakes refers to a change in the temperature at different depths in the lake, and is due to the change in water's density with temperature.[1] Cold water is denser than warm water and the epilimnion generally consists of water that is not as dense as the water in the hypolimnion.[2] However, the temperature of maximum density for freshwater is 4 °C. In temperate regions where lake water warms up and cools through the seasons, a cyclical pattern of overturn occurs that is repeated from year to year as the cold dense water at the top of the lake sinks. For example, in dimictic lakes the lake water turns over during the spring and the fall. This process occurs more slowly in deeper water and as a result, a thermal bar may form.[1] If the stratification of water lasts for extended periods, the lake is meromictic.

In shallow lakes, stratification into epilimnion, metalimnion, and hypolimnion often does not occur, as wind or cooling causes regular mixing throughout the year. These lakes are called polymictic. There is not a fixed depth that separates polymictic and stratifying lakes, as apart from depth, this is also influenced by turbidity, lake surface area, and climate.[3]

The lake mixing regime (e.g. polymictic, dimictic, meromictic)[4] describes the yearly patterns of lake stratification that occur during most of the years. However, short-term events can influence lake stratification as well. Heat waves can cause periods of stratification in otherwise mixed, shallow lakes,[5] while mixing events such as storms or large river discharge, can break down stratification.[6]

The accumulation of dissolved carbon dioxide in three meromictic lakes in Africa (Lake Nyos and Lake Monoun in Cameroon and Lake Kivuin Rwanda) is potentially dangerous because if one of these lakes is triggered into limnic eruption, a very large quantity of carbon dioxide can quickly leave the lake and displace the oxygen needed for life by people and animals in the surrounding area.

Natural resource and environmental managers are often challenged by problems caused by lake and pond thermal stratification.[2][7][8] Fish die-offs have been directly associated with thermal gradients, stagnation, and ice cover.[9] Excessive growth of plankton may limit the recreational use of lakes and the commercial use of lake water. With severe thermal stratification in a lake, the quality of drinking water also can be adversely affected.[2] For fisheriesmanagers, the spatial distribution of fish within a lake is often adversely affected by thermal stratification and in some cases may indirectly cause large die-offs of recreationally important fish.[9] One commonly used tool to reduce the severity of these lake management problems is to eliminate or lessen thermal stratification through aeration.[7] Many types of aeration equipment have been used to thermally destratify lakes. Aeration has met with some success, although it has rarely proved to be a panacea.[8]

Lake mixing regimes can shift in response to increasing air temperatures. Some dimictic lakes can turn into monomictic lakes, while some monomictic lakes might become meromictic, as a consequence of rising temperatures.[10]

Strange to post that. Now tell us how this applies to the lake you cited exactly, (polymictic, dimictic, meromictic) as well as to layers tens of thousands deep?

Are you really having a difficult time realizing the only thing that matters is what nature exists to enable/cause layers to be formed???

You were asked to specify how the 2 million years claimed was attained. You failed and tried to shift focus only on the 480 thousand layers you claim are undisturbed. Then you cite a geologic colum age without any support whatsoever and failed to address how the whole 480,000 layer deposit was declared to be Quaternary. You were asked for collaboration such as fossil evidences...nothing is all we get from you. It seems clear you cannot debate the issues in any depth, or defend your beliefs at all. Instead we see an appeal to blind faith.

 

[shunyadragon]

Strange to post that. Now tell us how this applies to the lake you cited exactly, (polymictic, dimictic, meromictic) as well as to layers tens of thousands deep?

Each layer matches the chemical, organic and texture of the layers observed forming every year today. The thousands of layers are identical. You have not provided any scientific research that they could have formed in any other way.

Are you really having a difficult time realizing the only thing that matters is what nature exists to enable/cause layers to be formed???

Yes, natural processes exist and are observed by the evidence that they are uniform over greater than 480,000 years by the same processes in the manner they form today. You have not presented any scientific evidence that would demostrate the could form in any other way.

You were asked to specify how the 2 million years claimed was attained. You failed and tried to shift focus only on the 480 thousand layers you claim are undisturbed. Then you cite a geologic colum age without any support whatsoever and failed to address how the whole 480,000 layer deposit was declared to be Quaternary. You were asked for collaboration such as fossil evidences...nothing is all we get from you. It seems clear you cannot debate the issues in any depth, or defend your beliefs at all. Instead we see an appeal to blind faith.

. . . and I responded. Failure to respond to substance of the article and my posts. Read again and respond. Your understanding of the basics of geology is already demonstrated to be elementary school.

Still waiting . . .

 

[dad]

Each layer matches the chemical, organic and texture of the layers observed forming every year today. The thousands of layers are identical. You have not provided any scientific research that they could have formed in any other way.

The whole area sits twixt big plates! Mountains pushed up on either side! Who knows what was squeezed together, and etc?

Yes, natural processes exist and are observed by the evidence that they are uniform over greater than 480,000 years by the same processes in the manner they form today.

You just look at how layers now form, see a bunch of layers that sort of look similar and declare they are all uniform!

. . . and I responded. Failure to respond to substance of the article and my posts.

Hey, if you post an article be prepared to answer questions about it, and lift out relevant parts to support your arguments. You are here to defend a position, not hand out reading assignments (of clueless belief based confused speculative dogma)

Read again and respond. Your understanding of the basics of geology is already demonstrated to be elementary school.

Still waiting . . .

The basics of geology is that they are part of the uniformitarian religion.

 

[shunyadragon]

The whole area sits twixt big plates! Mountains pushed up on either side! Who knows what was squeezed together, and etc?

Continental drift as observed today.

Still waiting for you to respond coherently to the subject at hand with scientific references supporting your assertions.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Continental drift as observed today.

Still waiting for you to respond coherently to the subject at hand with scientific references supporting your assertions.

We have historical observations that are the same as the same type of observations made today. No change in relatively short period of time.

His entire argument is screwy and just one of attrition. He wins if he can keep repeating the same baloney longer than others are willing to respond to him. I guess. I do not know what he wins. I am sure it is a deep personal victory that he can crow about, back at the roost.

 

[dad]

Continental drift as observed today.

What about it?? How fast it used to go depends on the nature of the day! You always resort to present nature in the past belief in all things.

 

[We Never Know]

What about it?? How fast it used to go depends on the nature of the day! You always resort to present nature in the past belief in all things.

To poster dad. You believe in god, creation, etc. Your adversaries do not. End of story. Why keep beating a dead horse?

 

[dad]

To poster dad. You believe in god, creation, etc. Your adversaries do not. End of story. Why keep beating a dead horse?

To poster weneverknow: You believe in a same nature in the past with no proof and use in to model what the past was like. End of story.

 

[shunyadragon]

What about it?? How fast it used to go depends on the nature of the day! You always resort to present nature in the past belief in all things.

This only reinforces your religious agenda to reject uniformitism, and not present any scientific basis for your assertions, As previous noted the amount of energy to require all the history of volcanism, metamorphism, continental drift, and erosion of the land would melt the earth if it too place in a short time

We have vast amounts of direct evidence of incremental movements in the crust of the earth when we have earthquakes. and the same detailed pattern of incremental movement of the crust over periods of millions and billions of years. Again absolutely no evidence for your Bible based assertions.

Like in the case of the lameli, we have overwhelming evidence of incremental changes in the earth for natural events occurring over periods of billions of years, and you have failed absolutely to provide an scientific evidence for your objections to uniformitism.

Still waiting . . .